Mancery/Hidden Art

[Xerphox]

Hell I miss all the fun......

 

[Cailst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adroit @ Sep 17 2007, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

There is no hole in my argument, for controlling atoms is a little different than creating atoms, seeing as that is literally impossible. But think, someone trying to actually manipulate atoms in the air, and mix them to exact specifications to create life? Yeah, riiiiiight. First off, creating life with the Force is kind of silly, I mean, Palpatine tried to convince Anakin that it was possible, but we don't know if he was lying or not. But either way, creating life, and teleporting a few feet away are pretty different.[/b]

Since it's mancery that's manipulating atoms with the force, it won't have the same limitations as the force does and will be more free to do stuff like that.

Teleporting a few feet away is exactly the same things as creating life. It's creating a new huaman being using parts from the old human being. The only difference is that with telepotation, you have a blueprint.

 

[Carden Mannux]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adroit @ Sep 17 2007, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

There is no hole in my argument[/b]

Read more carefully:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Carden Mannux @ Sep 17 2007, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm not questioning it's legitimacy, Kelly. I simply attempted to exploit what I believed to be a hole in Kurt's argument.[/b]

 

[Dexington]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adroit @ Sep 17 2007, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I mean, Palpatine tried to convince Anakin that it was possible, but we don't know if he was lying or not.[/b]

Precisely. We don't know if he could or not.

 

[Green Ranger]

If you're all nice to me, i'll try to write up a full explanation on how the Hidden Art is percieved and utilized by a Child of the Art. It'll all be strict OOC knowledge though, as i've previously stated, because otherwise it fucks up my whole storyline.

And then i'd have to kill you.[/b]

Delete-post so i'm not doubleposting.

I've been looking over a couple of things, and I just wanted to point out something. Call this whatever you want, it's just me investigating some storyline issues on the board i've noticed.

I'm a bit curious as to why 'grey' focused Force Sensitives and pracitioners of the Unified Force are allowed free reign within the Jedi and Sith, either in previous history or in current times. It strikes me as odd that practitioners of such unorthodox force types are allowed within the rigidly Light and Dark orders of the time. I doubt the Jedi or Sith would allow such members to reach high ranks within their Orders due to the strictness of the period, and the tension and paranoia surrounding the wars of the era - 'grey' or unified Force Sensitives could be undercover agents due to their unwillingness to devote themselves to one aspect of the Force. Even if such practices were widely regarded, wouldn't the amount of abilities in these areas be suppressed or frowned upon? I think that in striving to be unique, many members have created unorthodox characters that are perhaps too unorthodox to be 'realistically' viable in such a time period. Hell, Potentium's base theories came about around 2,000 BBY, and the Unifying Force theory is most likely to come after that. Admittedly, Grey Jedi were around before this, but they were usually regarded as misguided and their theories were rarely popular. If any operated within any Order, they operated within the Jedi Order, and did not join the Council often. Not to say that they didn't ever join the council, but it was very rare, especially due to the orthodox ways in which the Council was deeply rooted in that time. It also seems that the unified Force seems to be the ultimate level of achievement for any Force user, and that's not necessarily the case, either. It's just a different aspect of it that seems to have been glorified in the EU due to several notable users of it doing some fairly powerful stuff.

I want to apologize to any if it seems that this is picking on them, it's not my intent at all. I just wanted to note that if one thing doesn't seem to fit in the storyline, there's a couple of other things that don't fit either. Of course, feel free to shoot me down as well, as i'm most definately not an avid explorer of the EU - imo, there's much better literature to enjoy out there than most of the SW novels.

 

[Ser Yorick]

There's one fatal flaw in your entire argument Boli, the Unifying Force is basically a perspective of the Force, a belief system, not exactly a separate realm or branch of the Force. Practitioners of this belief are given free realm inside the Jedi Order because one can believe in the Jedi Code, and the Unifying Force at the same time. The Living Force wasn't even made the standard for the Jedi until Yoda had become a well established member of the Order. Gui-Gon was a grey Jedi, and Yoda thought him one of the best Jedi, and one of the wisest.

A practitioner of the Unifying Force can still be inclined toward being a good person, and bee seen as the ideal Jedi, it's just that this individual does not believe there is a "light" side to the Force, and believes that it all comes down to choice, and that those who blame the "dark side of the Force" for turning them are cowards, afraid to face themselves.

The Unifying Force is a belief that the Force doesn't have definite sides to a spectrum, and that the will of the Force is essentially good in nature, and has a wider plan for the galaxy as a whole. It is the people of the galaxy who choose sides, not the Force.

The Jedi would not turn away someone who displays good traits, especially since someone can follow the Code right down to the T and not have any conflicts with his own faith in the Unifying Force.

 

[Sabre]

Creating atoms? Fire is heat. I don't see why creating fire should be a problem really, when you consider that you can shoot bolts of lightning, fly, teleport, move objects with your mind etc. As long as your clever about how you do it and not just shooting random fireballs all over the place, then it seems fine to me. As far as creating plants and things go, fuck knows, quite frankly, you can animate plants and accelerate their growth if you like though, kinda handy.

 

[Green Ranger]

Exactly, the Unifying Force is a perspective, which means that it shouldn't be portrayed as the epitomy of Force achievement, which SWRP is doing at the moment.

The Unifying Force is a belief that the Force doesn't have definite sides to a spectrum, and that the will of the Force is essentially good in nature, and has a wider plan for the galaxy as a whole. It is the people of the galaxy who choose sides, not the Force.[/b]

You've gotten a little mixed up there, Kurt, as that's the Potentium belief of the Force, the foundations of such a belief theorized around 2,000 BBY. The Unifying Force beliefs are a little less rigid - that there is no light and dark, only the Force, which leads me to believe that such a belief in the Force came after Potentium came about, and would therefore not exist in this timeline.

 

[Ser Yorick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Grim @ Sep 18 2007, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Exactly, the Unifying Force is a perspective, which means that it shouldn't be portrayed as the epitomy of Force achievement, which SWRP is doing at the moment.[/b]

I'm the only one with a character who believes in the Unifying Force... and I'm not RPing him like his view is the epitome of Force achievement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Grim @ Sep 18 2007, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You've gotten a little mixed up there, Kurt, as that's the Potentium belief of the Force, the foundations of such a belief theorized around 2,000 BBY. The Unifying Force beliefs are a little less rigid - that there is no light and dark, only the Force, which leads me to believe that such a belief in the Force came after Potentium came about, and would therefore not exist in this timeline.[/b]

I meant to say Potentium at that point, because I was referring to what you had said, my bad. But, essentially, the Potentium and Unifying Force beliefs are really quite similar, except that one small tid-bit, which means basically nothing in the way one would be treated by the Jedi. The Sith, of course they would not allow such a belief system to exist, they're fuckin' evil, lol.

As for the belief of the Unifying Force coming after the Potentium, Jolee Bindo didn't state exactly what he believed in, but he didn't say Potentium in the KotOR game. He was a grey Jedi, which is essentially what a believer of the Unifying Force would be. Jolee did what he thought was right, and was only kicked from the Order because of his relationship with another, not because of his views on the Force, either. Whether you call it the Unifying Force, or by some other name, one can still believe that there is no light or dark side to the Force. You can't tell me that someone, somewhere couldn't think of that philosophy before 2,000 BBY, which is still the estimated date in the first place, many others could have believed in that before, and they just weren't mentioned because they didn't make much of a splash in history.

 

[Dexington]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Maverick @ Sep 18 2007, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Creating atoms? Fire is heat. I don't see why creating fire should be a problem really, when you consider that you can shoot bolts of lightning, fly, teleport, move objects with your mind etc. As long as your clever about how you do it and not just shooting random fireballs all over the place, then it seems fine to me. As far as creating plants and things go, fuck knows, quite frankly, you can animate plants and accelerate their growth if you like though, kinda handy.[/b]

Here here.

There is actually a recognized power for animating plants. Seemed cool to me.

 

[Ser Yorick]

The argument on creating atoms and creating fire were different, if no one noticed. The fault in creating fire is that there must be a physical source to start with, and we're not objecting to setting something on fire, but creating it out of thin air, and projecting it like a fireball.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Watchman @ Sep 18 2007, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The fault in creating fire is that there must be a physical source to start with, and we're not objecting to setting something on fire, but creating it out of thin air, and projecting it like a fireball.[/b]

We can create lightning out of thin air and then project it.

 

[Ser Yorick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brandon Rhea @ Sep 18 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

We can create lightning out of thin air and then project it.[/b]

lol no one reads my first post, do they?

The lightning is dark Force energy, which does not need an outward physical fuel source. The energy used to create what appears to be 'lightning' is expended by the user, hence the deteriorating of the physical body.

PS: Defend your opinion in the admin discussion thread beforehand, Bac, not after we've made the ruling and posted it as a rule.

 

[Lillianne Crasse]

Lightning really is the release of light energy between a positively and negatively charged item.

Formal Example: "For reasons that scientists still do not understand, this temperature difference (during a storm) results in the accumulation of negatively charged particles near the base and positively charged particles near the top of the storm cloud. The negatively charged particles repel the electrons of atoms in nearby objects, such as the bases of other storm clouds or tall objects on the ground. Consequently, these nearby objects take on a positive charge. The difference in charge, or voltage, builds until an electric current starts to flow between the objects along a pathway of charged atoms in the air. The current flow heats up the air to such a degree that it glows, generating lightning. Initially, a bolt of lightning carrying a negative charge darts from one storm cloud to another or from a storm cloud to the ground, leaving the bottom of the cloud with a positive charge. In response, a second bolt (reverse lightning) shoots in the opposite direction (from the other storm cloud or the ground) as the mass of negative charges on it moves back to neutralize the positive charge on the bottom of the first cloud."

Alright, people....this is SCI-FI and not really physics or science class. Quit being pains. :p

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I'm not taking a position on this. I'm simply asking a question.

 

[Sabre]

Creating fire and throwing it I would say is possible, as long as your clever about how you do it. Now I don't remember much from secondary school science, but isn't flame itself just extremely hot carbon atoms? So surely you could use the force to heat up a patch of air, which would probably have more of a white flame appearance than your average camp fire, and then force push those heated atoms towards an enemy? It would be incredibly tricky, but we are talking about a Hidden Art, after all.

 

[Ser Yorick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Maverick @ Sep 19 2007, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Creating fire and throwing it I would say is possible, as long as your clever about how you do it. Now I don't remember much from secondary school science, but isn't flame itself just extremely hot carbon atoms? So surely you could use the force to heat up a patch of air, which would probably have more of a white flame appearance than your average camp fire, and then force push those heated atoms towards an enemy? It would be incredibly tricky, but we are talking about a Hidden Art, after all.[/b]

That power would just be combustion, which would only last for less than a second, before it's extinguished. And flame doesn't spread outward from air... lol soo, wouldn't work.

 

[Kit]

Technically, fire would be quite easy...

Using enough of the force (or the nodes power) to give enough kinetic energy to a bunch of atoms (in, say, a lump of something) and the thing will catch fire. Transfer of energy eventually ends in heat. Enough heat = fire!

Then, it's just a matter of slnging said fire at someone...

Of course, the amount of energy required for each object to make it combust would differ greatly, and of course, some things would burn better than others. (coal vs snow)

But the principle of creating and using fire is pretty simple in itself...

 

[Sabre]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Watchman @ Sep 19 2007, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That power would just be combustion, which would only last for less than a second, before it's extinguished. And flame doesn't spread outward from air... lol soo, wouldn't work.[/b]

Pretty narrow minded tbh.

 

[Captain Kara]

Here is my say: First of all, Mancery/Hidden Art is part of this site. We can't just say no you can't do it now because according to our timeline, Mancery has happened before therefore I believe, Mancery is canon. We've had Ebon Claw, no offense, which is sillier than Mancery. I mean if a person of the hidden art used it against a Jedi they could simply force push the fireball or Iceball away. If they started freezing the ground maybe the Jedi would supply their students with a Plasma grenade acquired a friend of the Jedi. We have accepted a lot more sillier things on this site. That is all.