Secret Society of Jedi Separatists

[Korvo]

Plot Armor for everyone.

The New Jedi Order wouldn't attack these guys for separating. To think that is just silly.

Would other groups for other reasons? Sure. Why not? Jedi are Jedi. Jedi rebels are just as valid if not more so as they'd be seen as breakaway radicals without the Jedi Council to control them.

At the end of the day, the Jedi Order is a religious order, not a military organization, and not a political or governmental power. To leave a religious is neither treasonous or mutiny, unless it's an extremist order, like the Sith. All through history, at least in Legends, there have been Jedi that have voluntarily left the order. Jolee Bindo, Count Dooku, Kyle Katarn, Meetra Surik, etc., and they were neither imprisoned nor executed for it.

More evident than these was the way the Jedi Order dealt with the Revanchists, who were also separatist Jedi. In the end, the Jedi Council let them go. They disapproved, but they let them go. It was not a crime to leave the Jedi Order, and I couldn't see the Jedi suddenly going "to arms!" at the current Jedi separatists. They are not Darksiders, not Sith, not even rebels against the Jedi Code. There would be no reason for hostilities to be initiated between them at such a level.

 

[The Kyzer]

Certainly, if the separation was done poorly. Depending on the execution it could go either way.

Also what I posted is a far cry from plot armor.

Well it's good we got that straightened up.

Didn't want people run around thinking that they could do whatever they want because big bad Lucy was going to protect them.

 

[Galavant]

Plot Armor for everyone.

The New Jedi Order wouldn't attack these guys for separating. To think that is just silly.

Would other groups for other reasons? Sure.

To put it less abrasively, I'd encourage members of this venture to remember that they do not operate in a vacuum. The actions they take (and indeed some they have already taken as individuals) can have massive repercussions on not only the other members of it, but the rest of the Jedi Order, and the site, as well.

I'm not saying this to scare anyone away or anything (heck I'd advocate for an actual Grey Jedi Indie Faction), but it's very important to remember this. Your goto example being the Mandalorians where a single clan's actions had massive repercussions for the rest of the Mandalorian Space, and indeed the future of the war story, and the plot total. It created great story opportunities, and really helped to spurn things forward, but in not in the way that, that clan had intended. It's important to remember that the story doesn't always go the way you want, and with the precarious position that the Jedi currently find themselves in, the risk is greatly accentuated when different groups with different agendas are within the faction.

It's something ICly that should be thought on greatly considering the stakes, something the Mandalorians didn't seem to consider when they'd set out on their course of action, and it has far further impacts than being an internal issue to the Jedi Order that exists in a vacuum. The creative, and story opportunities things like this create are awesome, but it's not something you can keep in total control of, as ripples from such decisions effect other Factions.

 

[Miz]

Can I vote to make this an indie faction?

 

[Undine]

Can I vote to make this an indie faction?

You could I guess, but you'd be out voted by a large margin.

EDIT: In order for this group to become a full fledged indie faction, we would need IC justification to do so. As of right now the only reason for it would be if one group attack the other, neither myself nor my fellow Jedi Separatists want open conflict, or any conflict for that matter to be honest so this would be unlikely to occur.​

 

[TheSilentWind]

That's a paradox. You've written that you're loyal to the ideals you think the Order should embody, which differ from those running it, and that therefore you are not loyal to these people. Now, you're creating an organisation whose sole purpose is to rally people, with military power, from the very faction you disagree with. And yet, you're somehow claiming that you're not wanting to stage a coup? Which character would ever believe that?

Things must be considered from a strictly IC standpoint, because this is an IC organisation. One that revolves around a little something called Treason. This is, of course, absolutely fine, but you cannot have it both ways. From the moment you want to rally armed forces, you're choosing a side. Neutrality is no longer an option. And, by the looks of it, you're clearly not with this Order. So that leaves you being against it.

Now, and this really is just the new guy's 2 cents, but in my book, as permissive as the Jedi Council might be, they'd have to be borderline suicidal to even consider accepting this organisation simply because they're saying "Although we're getting an army, we promise we won't be going to war". So, I'd suggest you not being found, because the way I see it, the moment this organisation stops being a secret (how much of a secret it is should be left to the capable people charged with approving it), you'll realise you'll have caused the very war you claim you want no part of.

Where do you see a fleet of warships in this writeup or the intent of this faction being going to war with the Jedi Order because last time I checked the Jedi have no warships whatsoever, the group has not declared war on the Jedi Council, and the group still wants to follow the Jedi Code, etc.

Ranger, this:


You're accepting applications from Jedi. Jedi are soldiers. Therefore, you want to rally armed forces. That's only logical. Whether you get them or not isn't relevant.

Jedi aren't soldiers. You have been told before but I will state it again. Jedi are peacekeepers. They are people that support peace, and not war. This faction doesn't have any armed forces whatsoever so it doesn't make sense as to why you think it would.


EDIT: Didn't see Lucid's post before I posted on this. Glad this has been cleared up. Sorry. I wasn't trying to create any drama.

 

[Miz]

You could I guess, but you'd be out voted by a large margin.​

Well from the people who actually want to be PCs of the Jedi separatists.

EDIT: Oh well that sucks :(

 

[Mistress]

We had discussed actually going Indie at length. We even had our own preferences taken into consideration for the Admin ruling.

Our group is discussing long term plans atm. We are not looking to divide or be steadfast in our current beliefs. Afterall we seek what is best for the Order. It we see IC reason to become more trusting, then certainly we will prefer to evolve in that direction. We are not out to compromise the safety and security of the Order. If there was an attack we would stand with anyone side by side and give our all for our family.

 

[Lucid]

Well it's good we got that straightened up.

Didn't want people run around thinking that they could do whatever they want because big bad Lucy was going to protect them.

People can do whatever they want. That's the point of a freeform RP. The choices that players make, regardless of how they impact the existing structure of things are what make the game captivating and, if they are executed properly with the actions taken being justified by character interaction then those ideas should not be shied away from simply because they could be disruptive. Every action has a consequence, and the larger factions are not exempt from that either. Could a choice made by the IC leadership be something other characters don't agree with? Certainly. Are those characters free to act as they see fit in reaction to those choices? Of course.

If either action or reaction is well thought out, what does it matter if it sends ripples through the rest of the game? That's what makes it fun and interesting and the opportunity to do so should always be respected and given the right to have their choices play out fairly. Thoughtless action on either end or poorly executed action will always have repercussions and people will always have to live the consequences of that. That said, I see no reason not to foster well reasoned action taken by characters, regardless of how great the impact could grow to be; in that instance too, people have to live with the consequences on both sides.

 

[Cross]

I did write that I'd steer clear of this, so my apologies to Lutomi and Ranger for re-posting. But I feel that this really is an egregious mistake that should be rectified.

Jedi aren't soldiers. You have been told before but I will state it again. Jedi are peacekeepers. They are people that support peace, and not war. This faction doesn't have any armed forces whatsoever so it doesn't make sense as to why you think it would

I don't think you understand what a Soldier is. A Soldier is a member of an Organised Force with Military Power. Jedi are soldiers, yes. Just like Cartel members or any other faction out there.

To write that peacekeepers aren't soldiers can easily be considered insulting to the brave men and women currently actually risking their lives in a different country because, in their hearts, places like Iraq deserve to see democracy flourish. Unlike these little fairy-tale characters, those are real people, fighting real wars, doing far more with their lives than you or I. Regardless of how one feels about said wars, to claim that these ordinary people, these soldiers, are not there in hopes of keeping and/or restoring peace may easily get you into trouble in quite a few social standings.

Cheerio

 

[Undine]

I did write that I'd steer clear of this, so my apologies to Lutomi and Ranger for re-posting. But I feel that this really is an egregious mistake that should be rectified.
I don't think you understand what a Soldier is. A Soldier is a member of an Organised Force with Military Power. Jedi are soldiers, yes. Just like Cartel members or any other faction out there.

To write that peacekeepers aren't soldiers can easily be considered insulting to the brave men and women currently actually risking their lives in a different country because, in their hearts, places like Iraq deserve to see democracy flourish. Unlike these little fairy-tale characters, those are real people, fighting real wars, doing far more with their lives than you or I. Regardless of how one feels about said wars, to claim that these ordinary people, these soldiers, are not there in hopes of keeping and/or restoring peace may easily get you into trouble in quite a few social standings.

Cheerio

How about this, Jedi are meant to be diplomats, healers, scholars, scientists, and teachers. That is how they go about keeping the peace, they are not meant to force peace through violence although they have done so in the past. Oh and bringing up the war in Iraq is folly, on the one hand it has no place in this forum's RP setting, take it to the General Forums. On the second hand Jedi do not become Jedi in the hopes and dreams of fighting battles or serving in wars, they do so to learn about and study the Force and grow as people, Jedi are not soldiers, they are spiritual philosophers with the ability to help others, to which they often attempt to utilize said abilities to that effect.​

 

[Wit]

I don't think you understand what a Soldier is. A Soldier is a member of an Organised Force with Military Power. Jedi are soldiers, yes. Just like Cartel members or any other faction out there.

To write that peacekeepers aren't soldiers can easily be considered insulting to the brave men and women currently actually risking their lives in a different country because, in their hearts, places like Iraq deserve to see democracy flourish. Unlike these little fairy-tale characters, those are real people, fighting real wars, doing far more with their lives than you or I. Regardless of how one feels about said wars, to claim that these ordinary people, these soldiers, are not there in hopes of keeping and/or restoring peace may easily get you into trouble in quite a few social standings.

Cheerio

This. Everyone. Read. Now.

 

[Mistress]

I think there was an intent to stress our intentions that we were not choosing to gather to incite war. To be honest I haven't even read up on the longer posts in this thread that may have set us off kilter. I think that would be moot at this point. We have it pretty much under wraps at this time. I hope we have cleared the air.

I'd like to add as the instigator of the whole idea, if anyone involved does take the liberty to go off on a tangent thinking this movement will support them, they will find themselves sadly mistaken.

 

[StandbyRanger]

This. Everyone. Read. Now.

No. I. Won't. Thanks.

:19:

 

[TAC]

And I think, friends, thats the end of the matter.

As originally planned, this idea is now back under the umbrella of the Jedi, as we continue to seek interesting and diverse roleplaying experiences for our members.

Its okay to disagree on what role the Jedi are taking within the galaxy. But youre not going to change anything by arguing back and forth here, in fact its just hurting us OOC. So please, lets agree to disagree, and the leadership and I will work to accomodate Lutomi and here band of Jedi.

Youre not doing anything useful by arguing here. Go sign up for missions (still looking for folks to help eith the new outposts), and we'll be releasing more information once it is decided upon.

Cheers,
TAC

 

[TheSilentWind]

I did write that I'd steer clear of this, so my apologies to Lutomi and Ranger for re-posting. But I feel that this really is an egregious mistake that should be rectified.
I don't think you understand what a Soldier is. A Soldier is a member of an Organised Force with Military Power. Jedi are soldiers, yes. Just like Cartel members or any other faction out there.

To write that peacekeepers aren't soldiers can easily be considered insulting to the brave men and women currently actually risking their lives in a different country because, in their hearts, places like Iraq deserve to see democracy flourish. Unlike these little fairy-tale characters, those are real people, fighting real wars, doing far more with their lives than you or I. Regardless of how one feels about said wars, to claim that these ordinary people, these soldiers, are not there in hopes of keeping and/or restoring peace may easily get you into trouble in quite a few social standings.

Cheerio

Have you ever read what the Jedi are? They are people that want peace, they are people that are heal, they are people that help other people and are willing to help those in need. That is what the Jedi Order are. Their is a reason the Jedi Order lost during the Clone Wars. One of the reasons was that it wasn't prepared for the fight because the Jedi weren't soldiers, they weren't prepared for the war that came. That was why so many of them.

Anyway, I stated I wasn't going to cause any arguments anymore so this is my last post here. Feel free to counter me if you wish to but I won't respond.

Kwaheri!

 

[Wit]

:19:

 

[Oncaro]

I did write that I'd steer clear of this, so my apologies to Lutomi and Ranger for re-posting. But I feel that this really is an egregious mistake that should be rectified.
I don't think you understand what a Soldier is. A Soldier is a member of an Organised Force with Military Power. Jedi are soldiers, yes. Just like Cartel members or any other faction out there.

To write that peacekeepers aren't soldiers can easily be considered insulting to the brave men and women currently actually risking their lives in a different country because, in their hearts, places like Iraq deserve to see democracy flourish. Unlike these little fairy-tale characters, those are real people, fighting real wars, doing far more with their lives than you or I. Regardless of how one feels about said wars, to claim that these ordinary people, these soldiers, are not there in hopes of keeping and/or restoring peace may easily get you into trouble in quite a few social standings.

Cheerio

Apparently you don't understand what a soldier is. A soldier is a person who fights battles within a larger army, and by that definition, Jedi are not soldiers under ordinary circumstances, as they are not a military force and were never intended to be such. They can be called upon to act as soldiers when need be, but that is not the reason for their existence, unlike a standing, professional army. Their peacekeeping does not involve occupation or threat of force under ideal circumstances, but peaceful negotiation and reconciliation. It isn't insulting to actual veterans to point this distinction out, and you trying to claim such is rather disingenuous.

 

[Miz]

Can we take this little discussion to the Jedi OOC boards where it belongs?

 

[StandbyRanger]

But I agree with Miz. If there is going to be a debate about what a Jedi is or isn't, please take it to the OOC boards. A write-up is not a place to have it.