Sith

[Crosby]

Okay so the Sith are back this timeline but are they actual Sith or just impostors, because i thought the actual Sith were destroyed at the end of that one movie.

 

[jpchewy01]

Okay so the Sith are back this timeline but are they actual Sith or just impostors, because i thought the actual Sith were destroyed at the end of that one movie.

They truly believe that they are the real Sith. However the followers of Luke Skywalker (ie, the sane universe) still cling to the *cough* false prophecy of the "Chosen One".

 

[Horizon]

..I was certain we were battling thee Sith. :CAbove

 

[Brandon Rhea]

In the film canon, i.e. the only canon George Lucas considers relevant to his saga, the Sith were destroyed. The prophecy was fulfilled. In the EU, the writers decided to take a big dump on that because they couldn't think of anything else.

 

[jpchewy01]

Now that I think of it, if I remember correctly, Bac's timeline write up mentioned this point:

On the question of the Chosen One, it is the opinion of the New Jedi Order that these new Sith, along with all who called themselves Sith following the death of Darth Vader, are nothing more than impostors. The Jedi believe very strongly, based on the teachings of Luke Skywalker, that the prophecy was indeed fulfilled over the skies of Endor.

Oh if only people read...

 

[Malon]

Now that I think of it, if I remember correctly, Bac's timeline write up mentioned this point:



Oh if only people read...

My only beef with this, speaking in EU canon terms, is this; Lumiya was trained by Vader as a Secret Apprentice, while she was also an Emperor's Hand. She was trained as a Sith by Darth Vader. Check Wookieepedia. That makes her a real Sith, even though it broke the Rule of Two. She then trained Jacen Solo, making him a real Sith.

Darth Krayt, while believed a pretender by the holocron of Darth Bane, was appointed a Sith Lord by the spirit XoXaan, one of the very first Sith Lords, making him a real Sith. The reason it makes him a real Sith is because Sith have been appointed that way before. For example, when Exar Kun was made Dark Lord of the Sith by the spirit of Marka Ragnos.

So, speaking in terms of EU canon, it doesn't mean anything what the Jedi believe; these guys are real Sith, if only for the fact that their first leader, Darth Aevum, was named Dark Lady of the Sith by a Sith spirit.

It is indeed annoying that EU canon has rendered Darth Vader useless, but it has.

Speaking in terms of George Lucas' canon, then yes, the Sith died their final death above the skies of Endor.

 

[jpchewy01]

My only beef with this, speaking in EU canon terms, is this; Lumiya was trained by Vader as a Secret Apprentice, while she was also an Emperor's Hand. She was trained as a Sith by Darth Vader. Check Wookieepedia. That makes her a real Sith, even though it broke the Rule of Two. She then trained Jacen Solo, making him a real Sith.

Darth Krayt, while believed a pretender by the holocron of Darth Bane, was appointed a Sith Lord by the spirit XoXaan, one of the very first Sith Lords, making him a real Sith. The reason it makes him a real Sith is because Sith have been appointed that way before. For example, when Exar Kun was made Dark Lord of the Sith by the spirit of Marka Ragnos.

So, speaking in terms of EU canon, it doesn't mean anything what the Jedi believe; these guys are real Sith, if only for the fact that their first leader, Darth Aevum, was named Dark Lady of the Sith by a Sith spirit.

It is indeed annoying that EU canon has rendered Darth Vader useless, but it has.

Speaking in terms of George Lucas' canon, then yes, the Sith died their final death above the skies of Endor.

That could be a predicament, but I choose to believe Yoda from Episode 3 when he says, "A prophecy misread, it could have been."

 

[Fusion]

I suppose that both these Sith and the One Sith could be considered impostors, as they are in no way directly related to the Sith that ended with the death of Lumiya and Caedus(and went back to Vader, Bane, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow, Karness Muur, XoXaan, etc.), which are considered the original true Sith.

 

[Horizon]

So pretty much guys, yes these are the actual Sith. Anything less would take away from the overall spirit of the faction. If anyone says otherwise, it's cause they're Jedi. :CHappy

 

[Brandon Rhea]

That could be a predicament, but I choose to believe Yoda from Episode 3 when he says, "A prophecy misread, it could have been."

In the context of the films, it wasn't misread. Yoda said that because he and Mace didn't trust Anakin, and because they were beginning to think he wouldn't fulfill the prophecy. However, Anakin did go on to fulfill the prophecy in the film canon.

It's the EU that messed it up.

 

[jpchewy01]

In the context of the films, it wasn't misread. Yoda said that because he and Mace didn't trust Anakin, and because they were beginning to think he wouldn't fulfill the prophecy. However, Anakin did go on to fulfill the prophecy in the film canon.

It's the EU that messed it up.

Not necessarily. The prophecy could have been misread multiple ways. For instance, it could have referred to the current threat of the Sith. Vader destroyed Palpatine and returned the galaxy to peace and destroyed that particular incarnation of the Sith. But there was never a guarantee that the Sith would be permanently destroyed.

The other issue is the "balance of the force". Light overpowering dark is not balance. Without darkness, there is no light. The light side and the dark side are like yin and yang. The force was not out of balance during the prequels until after Order 66 was issued. Up until that point, the Jedi were still in existence and had the opportunity to fight the Sith. This was what allowed Anakin to fall and put the force out of balance. The power that Palpatine gained over the galaxy was unrivaled by any other Sith empire. This was the point where the force got out of balance, Anakin restored the balance by killing Palpatine. However, it was inevitable that the Sith should return because, as stated above, the dark fights an eternal struggle with the light. It is this struggle that is the origin of the balance of the force.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Not necessarily. The prophecy could have been misread multiple ways. For instance, it could have referred to the current threat of the Sith. Vader destroyed Palpatine and returned the galaxy to peace and destroyed that particular incarnation of the Sith. But there was never a guarantee that the Sith would be permanently destroyed.

The other issue is the "balance of the force". Light overpowering dark is not balance. Without darkness, there is no light. The light side and the dark side are like yin and yang. The force was not out of balance during the prequels until after Order 66 was issued. Up until that point, the Jedi were still in existence and had the opportunity to fight the Sith. This was what allowed Anakin to fall and put the force out of balance. The power that Palpatine gained over the galaxy was unrivaled by any other Sith empire. This was the point where the force got out of balance, Anakin restored the balance by killing Palpatine. However, it was inevitable that the Sith should return because, as stated above, the dark fights an eternal struggle with the light. It is this struggle that is the origin of the balance of the force.

That's super fantastic but the guy who dictates film canon says that balance of the Force means no Sith, so when Anakin sacrificed himself and killed Palpatine that brought about the end of the Sith. End of the Sith = balance of the Force = prophecy fulfilled. ;)

 

[Horizon]

Guys, Trip just wanted to know if the Sith we have really are Sith and not some kind of pretenders. We told him they are the real deal, so let's move on from the thread.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Guys, Trip just wanted to know if the Sith we have really are Sith and not some kind of pretenders. We told him they are the real deal, so let's move on from the thread.

That doesn't mean there can't be a discussion about it. If that was the case, I would've locked the thread and not replied to it. ;)

 

[Horizon]

That doesn't mean there can't be a discussion about it. If that was the case, I would've locked the thread and not replied to it. ;)

Go to another thread and discuss it, butt face.







:CHappy

 

[jpchewy01]

Go to another thread and discuss it, butt face.







:CHappy

I wanna have my debate with Bac here.

 

[Venom]

How I always saw it is the same way as JP apparently did, I always thought that Anakin had balanced the force by killing all of the jedi. Since there were then equal light and dark side users running around, which sounds more like balance than the bad guys being gone.

It also fits with him then fulfilling the prophecy.

 

[Green Ranger]

If the Force was balanced in favour of the Light before Order 66, why were the Jedi's powers almost completely muted by the Dark Side?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

If the Force was balanced in favour of the Light before Order 66, why were the Jedi's powers almost completely muted by the Dark Side?

It wasn't balanced in favor of the light before Order 66. That was the point. The dark side was overtaking the light side due to the return of the Sith, and that's why the Chosen One was needed to destroy them once and for all.

 

[Green Ranger]

It wasn't balanced in favor of the light before Order 66. That was the point. The dark side was overtaking the light side due to the return of the Sith, and that's why the Chosen One was needed to destroy them once and for all.

That was my point.