The Art of war, lessons, and discussions for better combat

[Empress]

The ART of WAR

Sun Tzu

based on Translations of by Thomas Cleary

Paraphrased and re ordered by moi​

As battles are coming, and going, I felt it a service to offer the wise words of Master Tzu, who's rules of all tings war, and command echo through every fiber of combat past present and future.
In these we can gain insight into the mind of a solider, commander, general, emperor, and lead to battles and combat in the RP setting that echo true thought, and preparation. This is by no means a way to say you “ have to” follow the concepts set fourth, however to add that all warfare follows these principles , and is often found to clearly point out that when followed armies all over the world succeeded, and when ignored have failed.

1 Strategic Assessments​

Military action is important to a faction - it is the ground of life and death, the path of survival and destruction, so it it important to understand it. Therefore measure it in terms of five things, use these assessments to make a comparison, and thus find out what conditions are. The five things are:
the way,
the weather,
the terrain,
the leadership,
the discipline


The Way means inducing the people to have the same aim as the leadership, so that they may share death and life without fear of danger. The weather means the seasons. The Terrain is to be assessed in terms of distance, difficulty, or ease of travel, dimension, and safety. Leadership is a matter of intelligence, trustworthiness, humanness, courage, and sternness. Discipline means organization, chain of command, and logistics. Every general has heard of these five things. Those who known them succeed, those who do not know them perish.


Because of this, one should use these assessments for comparison, to find out what the conditions are. That is, which leadership has the way? Which general has ability? Who has the better climate and terrain? Whose discipline is effective? Whose troops are stronger? Who's officers and solders are the better trained? Whose system of reward and punishment is more defined? This is how you can know who will succeed.


Assess the advantages in taking advice, then secure your forces accordingly, to supplement extraordinary tactics. Forces are to be structured strategically, based on what is advantageous.
When you are going to attack nearby, make it look as if you are going to go far. When you are going to attack far, make it look as if you are staying near. Fade to the east, and strike west. Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion.




When they are fulfilled, be prepared against them; when they are strong, avoid them. Use anger, or other distracted ways of mind to throw them into disarray. Use Humility to make them haughty, Tire them by flight, Cause division among them. Attack when they are unprepared, make your move when they do not expect. The formation and procedure used by the military should not be shared openly beforehand.


The one who figures on victory while still at base before even doing battle is the one who has the most strategic factors on their side. The one who figures on inability to win at base before battle has no strategic factors on their side. The one with the most favors on their side wins, the one without looses. Observing the matters in this way we can see who will win, and who will loose.




















* take a few days to debate the lessons here “ doing battle” will come Saturday

 

[Keinushi]

Because war, war never changes.

 

[Crosby]

Because war, war never changes.

Fallout?

 

[Samara]

Because war, war never changes.

lol *gets a strap for Keinushi*

Nice post btw

Fallout?

I thought Solid

 

[Crosby]

I thought Solid

Probably both, probably not origanally from a game at all. Sounds like somthing a great mind said, like benjamin franklin or some shit.

 

[Samara]

Probably both, probably not origanally from a game at all. Sounds like somthing a great mind said, like benjamin franklin or some shit.

Sounds like something anyone would say, its not really that deep lol, it just depends on who says it and the circumstances in what he says it, as always

 

[Keinushi]

not what I thought of when you said 'gets a strap' but funny none the less.

and it is from something other than fallout, they even say who quoted it i believe, I just don't remember who they said it was.

 

[Samara]

not what I thought of when you said 'gets a strap' but funny none the less.

Same, image idea came after the edit

 

[Horizon]

Are we like children in kindergarten, so easily distracted?



But I so support what we have here. Definitely informative.

 

[Will]

The ART of WAR

Sun Tzu

based on Translations of by Thomas Cleary

Paraphrased and re ordered by moi​

As battles are coming, and going, I felt it a service to offer the wise words of Master Tzu, who's rules of all tings war, and command echo through every fiber of combat past present and future.
In these we can gain insight into the mind of a solider, commander, general, emperor, and lead to battles and combat in the RP setting that echo true thought, and preparation. This is by no means a way to say you “ have to” follow the concepts set fourth, however to add that all warfare follows these principles , and is often found to clearly point out that when followed armies all over the world succeeded, and when ignored have failed.

1 Strategic Assessments​

Military action is important to a faction - it is the ground of life and death, the path of survival and destruction, so it it important to understand it. Therefore measure it in terms of five things, use these assessments to make a comparison, and thus find out what conditions are. The five things are:
the way,
the weather,
the terrain,
the leadership,
the discipline


The Way means inducing the people to have the same aim as the leadership, so that they may share death and life without fear of danger. The weather means the seasons. The Terrain is to be assessed in terms of distance, difficulty, or ease of travel, dimension, and safety. Leadership is a matter of intelligence, trustworthiness, humanness, courage, and sternness. Discipline means organization, chain of command, and logistics. Every general has heard of these five things. Those who known them succeed, those who do not know them perish.


Because of this, one should use these assessments for comparison, to find out what the conditions are. That is, which leadership has the way? Which general has ability? Who has the better climate and terrain? Whose discipline is effective? Whose troops are stronger? Who's officers and solders are the better trained? Whose system of reward and punishment is more defined? This is how you can know who will succeed.


Assess the advantages in taking advice, then secure your forces accordingly, to supplement extraordinary tactics. Forces are to be structured strategically, based on what is advantageous.
When you are going to attack nearby, make it look as if you are going to go far. When you are going to attack far, make it look as if you are staying near. Fade to the east, and strike west. Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion.




When they are fulfilled, be prepared against them; when they are strong, avoid them. Use anger, or other distracted ways of mind to throw them into disarray. Use Humility to make them haughty, Tire them by flight, Cause division among them. Attack when they are unprepared, make your move when they do not expect. The formation and procedure used by the military should not be shared openly beforehand.


The one who figures on victory while still at base before even doing battle is the one who has the most strategic factors on their side. The one who figures on inability to win at base before battle has no strategic factors on their side. The one with the most favors on their side wins, the one without looses. Observing the matters in this way we can see who will win, and who will loose.




















* take a few days to debate the lessons here “ doing battle” will come Saturday

Well, I now Know your tactics if I ever do battle with you :CSly The art of war has pride and place on my shelf.

 

[Empress]

lol, just go over alot of the Viea history, and my tactics will be pretty open ^_^ Master Tzu playes a major, major role, and I LOVE playing the deception/decoys/webs too.

Im putting the other lessons in text, but Im noticing on some I may need to rephrase them to better fit SW appropriate things " like the mountain and valleys" rule to maneuvering troops. It does not take much to " update the meaning" but may just do so anyway to make it easier to read.

 

[Kit]

Sun Tzu only teaches one lesson that can be truly applied to all warfare. That is his focus on the principle of deception. Otherwise, he's just as flawed as (if not more so) any other thinker.

Now, if you want toread about strategy, that's actually applicable in the modern era look up Carl Von Clausewitz. Now he is a truly timeless strategic thinker.

 

[Djak Mikos]

[QUOTE:] Sun Tzu only teaches one lesson that can be truly applied to all warfare. [/QUOTE]

I have read Sun Tzu's Art of War three times, the last only a month ago, and that is untrue.

Let me sum up what Sun Tzu teaches about pre-engagement preparation. I have the book with me right now, having just read it last month. His philosophy is that 'fair' engagement should be avoided at all costs by methods including but not limited to:
1) Deceiving the enemy
2) Assassinations
3) Sabotage
4) Asset denial
5) Demoralization

(That's 5 off the top of my head)

The actual battle should only be fought when victory has already been assured, and wars should be both brief and thorough.

What, in these five things, do our armed forces not do today? What, in these five things, is not used by gang wars? Hell, even corporate wars have real casualties.

The thing that intimidates people about these techniques is that they don't want their enemy using the same techniques against them. Therefore, they sweep them under the rug, and whine that their enemies are 'unfair' when they are cold-cocked.

Now maybe I'm off here, and what you're actually referring to is tactical manuvers that take into account tanks, snipers, UAVs, wireless communications, and other technolegies not available to Sun Tzu. If so, please, clarify.

((MatronAdena, I'm sorry if I'm stealing wind from other lessons, and I can edit if you like))

 

[Empress]

oh nono it's fine, but you hit a few good points too. Though Master Zhu wrote to the context of his time, you can look at every battle from then on now and the outcomes, what worked, did not work, and why you can attest them directly to one of the lessons, , some things adapt " like Mountains and Valleys " refereeing to keeping yourself ample room to gain access to food, shelters, and other supplies in the Valleys where one would hunt to feed said armies alters to " ample room to put air strips/air drops etc...which serve the exact same purpose, and still require one to plan movements and deployments were having access to such a location is obtainable.

 

[Djak Mikos]

Thanks :) I've often thought how all of the above could be applied to guild conflicts on online games, and somehow the 'softening up' tactics always seem to lead to banning. Some people are just jealous that they didn't think of it first, lol.

I look forward to the next lesson!

 

[Cailst]

Sun Tzu only teaches one lesson that can be truly applied to all warfare. That is his focus on the principle of deception. Otherwise, he's just as flawed as (if not more so) any other thinker.

Now, if you want toread about strategy, that's actually applicable in the modern era look up Carl Von Clausewitz. Now he is a truly timeless strategic thinker.

Wasn't Clausewitz sorta the opposite of Sun Tzu on deception? Basically, the fog of war was so bad anyways that further deception of the enemy was useless.

 

[Will]

Sun Tzu only teaches one lesson that can be truly applied to all warfare. That is his focus on the principle of deception. Otherwise, he's just as flawed as (if not more so) any other thinker.

Now, if you want toread about strategy, that's actually applicable in the modern era look up Carl Von Clausewitz. Now he is a truly timeless strategic thinker.

I also use this guy as my art of war :CSly

 

[Lavi]

The Art of War is my handbook on war. =]

 

[Will]

Peeps just be givin' away their tactics!

 

[Empress]

Doing Battle:

When in battle, even though you may be winning, Should you carry on for too long a time it will dull your forces and blunt your edge; If you besige a citadel, your streangth will become exsausted. If you keep your armies out and on the field for long periods your supplies will become insufficient.

When your forces are dulled, and your edge is blunted, your strength is exhausted, and your supplies are gone, others will take advantage of your debility and rise up. Even with wise advisers you will not have the ability to make things turn out well in the end. From this one may hear of military operations that were clumsy, but swift. However one that was skilled but long lasted is never seen. It is never in the favor of a nation to have a long, drawn out military opperation.

Those who are not made completely aware of the disadvantages in the use of arms cannot be completely aware of the advantages in the use of arms. Those who use the military skillfully do not raise double the troops, and not triple the supplies. When a country is impoverished by their military operations, it is because of transporting supplies to a distant place.

Those nearest an army will sell at a higher price. Because of high prices, the wealth of the common people is exhausted. When resources are exhausted, then levies are made under pressure. When power and resources are exhausted, then the homeland is drained. The common people are deprived of their budget, while the governing body's expenses rise beyond it's own budget. Therefore a wise general aims to feed off the enemy. Each pound of food taken from the enemy is equivalent to 20 pounds you provide by yourself.

What kills the enemy is anger, what gets the enemy's goods is reward, therefore in a chariot battle, reward the first to capture ten chariots ( That is to say, reward your troops well, and they will fight well, even at great risk)

Change their colours, use them mixed in your own. Treat soldiers well, take care of them This is called overcoming the opponent and increasing your strength. ( treat your army well, and through this win over the loyalties of your enemy in the process)

The important thing in a military operation is victory, not persistence. Hence, we know that the leadership of the army is in charge of the lives of the people and the safety of the nation.

* summery: Battle should be quick, and to the point, the longer it drags on, the lower moral, and supplies become. As these lower overall effectiveness fails. Replenishing supplies from home will cost more the longer, and further away you are. This creates a strain on the populace. Do not hesitate to take plundered supplies, weapons, and rations, this will keep your forces strong, and ease the burdens back home. Keep moral high by offering rewards be it in plunder, or special commendations in turn your troops will fight harder, and the promise of reward may often win over the hearts of captured enemy troops. A wise leader will keep these things in mind to make matters back home as smooth as possible.
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