The Force Awakens - Thoughts and Reactions (SPOILERS WITHIN)

[Shiuzu]

The difference between Rey and Luke is that throughout A New Hope and even Empire we see him struggle and the need to get bailed out of situations and grow his abilities.

In the desert Obi-Wan needs to save Luke from the Tusken Raiders, then again in the bar, Han Solo has to save Luke from getting shot down by Vader in the trench run, then again on Hoth. We see Luke struggle and develop.

 

[EmilyHuene]

We also need to keep mind she's been fighting for her life for probably...well all her life. She knew how to use that now staff. Luke probably has never been in a fight. As for flying the ship, Idk. I'd like to think if she had a ship she wouldn't be scavenging. I can understand not leaving jakku but seriously you're that poor? Has she ever been inside a real ship? Seemed a little far fetched for me. Knowing the ship ins and outs was cool though

 

[Brandon Rhea]

He got training?

For 30 seconds with that probe droid, yeah.

Except we know that Luke did have prior training/experience as a pilot.

"I used to hunt womp rats in my T-16 back home, they aren't much bigger than two meters."

I'm not sure how he "out piloted" Vader either. They were literally flying in a straight line and Vader had him dead to rights until Han showed up out of the blue and smoked the TIE fighters following Luke.

Also, even after receiving some training in the Force from Yoda himself, Luke still got his ass kicked in his first bout with Vader. So much so that he kinda, y'know... lost a hand. And he certainly didn't pull off any untrained mind tricks or escape Cloud City all on his lonesome using his scrapping good looks.

Luke's development throughout the trilogy was real and gritty. Rey just... is. Which is dull.

Half of this argument relies on things Luke did and learned in the second film. Luke was exceptionally skilled in the first one, like Rey, and then had weaknesses in the second film - when the stakes were higher.

The fight with Kylo is not what people are upset with, flying a ship really good and using the force untrained are very different things as a mind trick with no knowledge of even how to use the force is what upsets people.

She has experience as a pilot, just not as pilot of the Millennium Falcon. She said that outright.

Using the Force untrained is only an issue in the context of a prequel trilogy that turned Jedi into superheroes. Being able to perform unexpected feats with the Force is very much in line with A New Hope. Luke was able to use the Force to send two torpedoes into the Death Star reactor shaft, a feat that no computer could manage.

That's the difference between the OT and the PT when it comes to the Force. In the prequels, it became something that could be calculated in your blood and that required years and years of training. In the OT, it was about having faith in yourself and finding the power within - which is exactly what Rey did. It's classic Star Wars storytelling.

Plus, considering she's probably Kylo's cousin, mental powers clearly run in the family.

The difference between Rey and Luke is that throughout A New Hope and even Empire we see him struggle and the need to get bailed out of situations and grow his abilities.

In the desert Obi-Wan needs to save Luke from the Tusken Raiders, then again in the bar, Han Solo has to save Luke from getting shot down by Vader in the trench run, then again on Hoth. We see Luke struggle and develop.

Rey also had to rely on Finn to get away from the TIE fighters on Jakku. The moment that Rey was spotted with Finn and BB-8, she had to rely on others to survive. If Finn hadn't dragged her along, she would've been captured and potentially killed.

And without Finn and Han, it's doubtful she would've escaped from the Starkiller.

Competence =/= Mary Sue. The idea of a Mary Sue originated as self-insert fan fic characters, but it's unfortunately evolved into "women who are really good at shit." It's an argument that is almost NEVER applied to male characters. Not saying that's the angle that you're coming from, Graham, because obviously I know you and you don't do that, but it's an unfortunate trope nonetheless.

We also need to keep mind she's been fighting for her life for probably...well all her life. She knew how to use that now staff. Luke probably has never been in a fight. As for flying the ship, Idk. I'd like to think if she had a ship she wouldn't be scavenging. I can understand not leaving jakku but seriously you're that poor? Has she ever been inside a real ship? Seemed a little far fetched for me. Knowing the ship ins and outs was cool though

Bingo re: fighting her whole life. Look at her competence with the quarterstaff - she's a warrior. She has to be in order to survive in the cutthroat wastes of Jakku.

I also don't think it was suggesting she had her own ship. Just that she had piloting experience. Plus if she's a Skywalker, then piloting is in her blood.

EDIT: Plus, Rey did have character flaws. She was delusional about the idea that her family was coming back for her, willing to remain in a mediocre life because of a fantasy, and had a lot of self-doubt. She also rejected the Cambellian call to adventure.

 

[Nor'baal]

She was living on a planet inhabited entirely by scum, and she got attacked twice whilst she was in town shopping! She can fight and as she says "Look after herself"!

And Finn is basically the new Han Solo, which is awesome.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

She was living on a planet inhabited entirely by scum, and she got attacked twice whilst she was in town shopping! She can fight and as she says "Look after herself"!

And Finn is basically the new Han Solo, which is awesome.

I actually like that you can't quite peg Finn and Poe into OT archetypes. Rey is obviously Luke, but in terms of how Finn and Poe (the latter of whom didn't even share a scene with her) relate to Rey and to the overall story, they're both a blend of Han and Leia's character traits.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Also, re: Obi-Wan, JJ confirmed that Alec Guinness AND Ewan McGregor were in it.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

When Obi-Wan says "Rey," it's cut from Alec Guinness saying the word "afraid." The line "These are your first steps" was recorded by Ewan McGregor.

 

[Shiuzu]

Obviously Poe is the clone army, they just have back-ups of him stashed away somewhere and he did die on Jakku.

 

[Marcus]

I cannot wait to see what's in store for Poe - he was undoubtedly my favorite character actually!

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Obviously Poe is the clone army, the just have back-ups of him stashed away somewhere and he did die on Jakku.

I would be totally onboard with a million Oscar Isaac's in the galaxy.

 

[Nor'baal]

An army of Poes.

A Poeathon.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Grand Army of the Poepublic

 

[Nor'baal]

The first, GALACTIC POEPIRE!

 

[Shiuzu]

I would be totally onboard with a million Oscar Isaac's in the galaxy.

Think about it, pilot that's unnaturally good, he's the face of The Resistance, and dies in suspicious circumstances only to show up again with no real explanation of how it happened a la Dark Knight Rises.

 

[Galad J. Victus]

I think Finn was the best out of the new generation. He is an extremly likeable character and has had the most interesting story in the first film if you ask me, along with the most well structured character development. I'm really curious as to see what they have planned for him in the next films.

Do you guys think that he has Force connection? Unlikely, but a part of me says it could be really cool if that's the case.

 

[Richie B.]

Her being able to fix a ship is explained by really her ability to scavenge ships for parts, and learning from hands on experience seeing what makes a ship tick.

Her ability to fly good I don't have a problem with, being a good fighter is expected with her live style. But still luke allowed the force to guide him (at least that is what I think happened) but being able to actually apply the force in such a way is completely different (at least that is what I believe) though I can't really say the force pull was that far fetch, and was honestly one of my favorite moments.

Not saying she is a Mary Sue (hopefully that is how you say it) just that they could have done something more realistic. For that one thing, but besides that she is a great character and I completely hope to see her story expanded.

@Galad J. Victus i really hope so if Finn is force sensitive that would be cool

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Her being able to fix a ship is explained by really her ability to scavenge ships for parts, and learning from hands on experience seeing what makes a ship tick.

Her ability to fly good I don't have a problem with, being a good fighter is expected with her live style. But still luke allowed the force to guide him (at least that is what I think happened) but being able to actually apply the force in such a way is completely different (at least that is what I believe) though I can't really say the force pull was that far fetch, and was honestly one of my favorite moments.

Not saying she is a Mary Sue (hopefully that is how you say it) just that they could have done something more realistic. For that one thing, but besides that she is a great character and I completely hope to see her story expanded.

Realistic isn't really the best choice of words when we're dealing with an all powerful energy field that gives people telekinetic powers.

To really understand what they did with Rey, you have to go to the heart of what the Force was in the original films, particularly in The Empire Strikes Back - which Lawrence Kasdan, who co-wrote this film, wrote back in the day. The Force was never about training like it was in the prequels. It was never about having certain power levels, or experience, or whatever. Training and experience were necessary in order to fully comprehend and utilize the power at your disposal, but Jedi training - particularly the training Yoda gave Luke - was ultimately about one thing: using the Force without falling prey to the seductions of the dark side.

Rey, who probably had some training as a child (her vision implied she was there when Kylo massacred the new Jedi), went through the journey that's at the heart of the Force. It's a journey of self-discovery, of overcoming fears and self-doubts, and finding that the power was within you the whole time. That's exactly the progression she took in this film. First, she found the lightsaber and realized the power of the Force was with her, but she rejected it. It wasn't until Kylo tortured her that she finally started to accept her destiny and her power. That's why Kylo said that Rey would get stronger the more she made her way through the Starkiller, because she would start to accept herself and use her latent abilities. She finally fully accepted who she was when she called the lightsaber into her hand and fought Kylo.

I would very much argue that anyone who says she's a Mary Sue (and I know you didn't say that) doesn't fully understand the Star Wars mythos, or at the very least is too invested in the prequel and Expanded Universe notion that the Jedi are about power levels, etc. This is Star Wars going back to its roots.

Do you guys think that he has Force connection? Unlikely, but a part of me says it could be really cool if that's the case.

I hope not. Rey is the Jedi. Poe is the war hero. Finn should be the everyman, like Han Solo was.

 

[Dakota]

THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS.

Anyway, as much as I loved this movie (and I really, really loved this movie) I get a bad feeling that, where the prequel trilogy more or less shunned a lot of what people loved about the first three movies, this one was trying to out-Original Trilogy the Original Trilogy.

Either way, this is probably my second favorite Star Wars movie behind Empire. I mean, you can't not get chills seeing Luke show up at the end. He doesn't have to speak and I was smiling like an idiot. Han's death was incredibly well handled, both Rey and Finn were amazing and I'm happy that Poe's stepping up to fill Han's cocky, wisecracking shoes. I'm happy this is turning into a trilogy, it'll be great to learn more about Kylo's fall to the Dark Side & Rey's training under Luke in the next movie. I would've liked to see Phasma fleshed out a little more, and I assumed that they would save destroying the Starkiller for the next movie (my initial thought was this was just going to weaken the weapon and they would come back again the next movie to destroy it completely) but I still loved how it went.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

While the Starkiller weapon was certainly derivative, and Jakku was a total nod to Tatooine, most of the direct similarities end there, I think. The rest of it is just similar archetypes and the Cambellian journey of a hero. And that journey was mainly filled by Finn, whereas Rey charted her own course - which is incredibly appropriate, since the hero's journey (while accurate based on most myths throughout time) is incredibly male-centric.

 

[Vulpes]

While I loved the film, you can definitely see how it follows almost exactly the same sequence as A New Hope. Not a bad thing, but I hope that the rest of the new trilogy is a little more ambitious with it. If episode 8 ends up being too close to Empire Strikes back, I may be actually upset over it.

Gonna use the same format I do with the Rebels TV show;

• The major event, of course. Pissed that it did get spoiled for me, but it was still spine tingling regardless.
• Rey = Luke's daughter. No way she's not. She's an orphan, he disappeared, they're both Force Sensitive, and she has visions of her [in my theory] ancestors when touching Anakin's and Luke's lightsaber.
• Small nods, here and there. "This was the ship that made the Kessel Run in 14 parsecs", "Twelve!" I don't think they overdid referencing the old movies, which brings me to my next point
• Chewie and Han. Great additions to the film. They didn't try to do the Lucas white-wash. They're scoundrels, criminals, and they've fallen back to that at heart. I mean, they're supplying death-beasts to a tyrant. That practically screams amoral.
• I LOVED THIS MOVIE. God. Just had to say that. Of course, the fanboy hype will die down eventually.
• Finn, a presumably non-force user, is able to get by using a lightsaber, even if he's completely untrained.
• KYLO REN; Not sure how to feel about him yet. I like him, but I have to see how they handle him in the latter movies and Expanded lore. They casted him well, and he is unique by not being unique. He's clearly struggling to be like Vader, imitating even the mask stuff. His lightsaber turned out to be cooler than I initially thought.
• PEW PEW dogfighting combat! It was great. Loved it. Poe has the potential to being one of my favorite characters, especially if they end up doing a heavy focus on him, like they did Wedge Antilles in the legends continuity.
• The First Order is okay. Just during the major speech though, it feels like they casted the General wrong. He feels too young and didn't sell it well. There's not much backstory, that I know of, that justifies it either.
• Kylo Ren = Ben Solo. Nice nod to Ben Kenobi, and subsequently Ben Skywalker in the old legends continuity.
• Snoke. I like him, in theory. Stupid name, though. He's very CGI, I'm a little worried how they'll probably handle him in later films, assuming he's gonna do a lightsaber duel or something.
• BB-8, I liked more than I'd thought.
• MAJOR QUESTION: What's going on with the Republic? Is the Resistance not part of the Republic? I'm kind of left really confused on the relationship between these two factions, if they're even different factions. I hope someone knows the answer to this, because it bugs me.

 

[EmilyHuene]

Since I never got a response when I posted this way back at the beginning of the thread, I'll ask again.

This coming from someone who has only watched the movies, can we acknowledge the fact that the blue saber the characters find is the one that Luke lost in Cloud City? He made a new one for The Return, which was green. They made it seem like Luke left his life and his saber behind. Maybe I'm wrong because they didn't say that specifically, it's just the vibe I got. If 2017 comes around and they say "hey where did you find that?" And don't make any recognition of the fact he already has his green one, I'll be upset.