President Donald Trump

[Gamov]

Oh goody. Now he's starting to "indefinitely suspend" immigration from "certain countries".

If only we had some kind of historical frame of reference to inform us where this slippery slope leads. Alas, history does not repeat itself and I can think of no modern comparison upon which to glean a clearer understanding of the potential ramifications such policies often lead to.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see on this one, guys.

 

[Mazianni]

He's still not doing enough. List of suspended countries should be much longer.

And restrictive policy regarding immigration was the norm in this country until the late 1960s, so that kind of talk is pretty well laughable.

 

[Jabonicus]

I wanted to give the dude a chance, but he went and ruined shit within days. His actions don't bother me nearly as much as the consequences of them, which he seems completely oblivious to.

 

[Deviant]

Will he be a bad President? Perhaps, perhaps not. Will he be a good one? Oh please. He's only been in office a little over a week and he's already:

• Started to repeal the Affordable Care Act without providing a sound strategy to simultaneously repeal and replace it, nor offered the public specifics or precise reassurances on a replacement plan (to my current knowledge). Not to mention the thousands of jobs that will be lost once repealed, as well as the dreadful costs of doing so. Obamacare isn't perfect. Never was. But by replacing it in such a fragile manner will certainly breed consequences. (1, 2, 3)
• Ordered that "environmental reviews and approvals" be "expedited" for high-priority infrastructure projects (order here). Oh, sure: sounds all nice and dandy, right? Finally, that one random water pipeline can be built a week or two less! Forget the possibilities of water poisoning (because it totally won't happen, like Flint or elsewhere), and environmental hazards that might ensue!
• Placed gag orders on government agencies, and instructed the EPA to take down its climate change page while halting new studies over it so they might "review" prior ones, etc. The administration even removed LGBT rights, climate change, and health care from the White House page. Because, y'know, climate change is fake! All those scientists? Stupid.
• Froze federal hiring, likely killing prospective and effectively making the government... less effective. Because, forget the need of nursing positions in the Veterans Affairs or the Human/Health Dept., or civil engineers for the Federal Highway Administration. God forbid.
• "Increased the amount of money first-time home buyers and low-income borrowers must pay to get a mortgage." (1) Of five million people. By $500 a year. A champion for the people? Surely.
• Threw in an anti-abortion gag rule for international organizations that receives U.S. funding, preventing a number of doctors around the world to help women in other countries (even where abortion is perfectly legal). But that's great, right? It stops abortions! Wrong. Without guidance or aid by doctors in such organizations, women are more than likely to turn to unsafe abortions. Studies have found that reducing abortion... doesn't stop abortion (x), it just makes women turn elsewhere (i.e. death per unsafe procedures). Or just have unintended pregnancies and abuse/abandon the child.
• Set into motion for a foundation of "the wall." A wall that will cost billions (which will first come from taxpayers, because Mexico is clearly intent on not paying such a ludicrous amount). I'm not even including the cost it might take to maintain it, or the costly detention facilities that come with it.
• Banned immigrants coming from seven Middle-Eastern countries, including green cards. It's barely been two days and already innocent people are having to deal with this. I don't even have to elaborate on this to know that it's wrong. A nation built by immigrants and refugees, banning immigrants and refugees. Nice.

Is there more? Yes (i.e. cabinet nominations, Keystone XL, etc.). Am I too lazy to continue elaborating? Yes. Do I need to actually get to threads that have been waiting on me for weeks instead of participating in a random political debate? Yes. Will I actually do that? Probably not.

 

[Mazianni]

A nation built by Western European immigrants who drove out or annihilated entirely the native population inhabiting the country beforehand.

Yeah, it's uncanny that anybody'd want to stop enabling mass immigration, what with such a brilliant track record.

Or like how we declared a moratorium on immigration in the 20s after the first Red Scare and all the waves of bombings before it, after we opened ourselves to immigration from chaotic Eastern and Southeastern Europe.

Innocent people - screw innocent people. The government exists to serve Americans, first and last, not foreigners. If I had my way the only people we'd be letting in from just about anywhere would be goddamned astrophysicists and the like, people that it could be proved would be able to advance national interests. Rest of the world can right well go straight to hell.

And yeah, let me tell you, I'm not nuts for all the environmental regulations getting slashed, nor all that federal land out west getting sold to whatever greedy POS decides to pick it up. But honestly, screw everyone that ignored our concerns regarding immigration for the past 20 some-on years. Screw the BLM movement, screw La Raza, screw the greedy Chamber of Commerce types and screw Hollywood. I'm pretty well a single-issue voter by this point and I'll vote for anybody who I think will protect this country, and I do not care in the least what it takes to do so, nor do I even much care for whatever side policies might be pushed.

As for the wall: I don't care if they have to mine the whole desert. If it costs a trillion dollars, I don't care. Most of the trouble regarding stopping illegal immigrants coming from Mexico comes from legal hurdles as opposed to their physical passage, but hey, it's a powerful message.

I hope you guys enjoyed the last 8 years, because things are not going back to the way they used to be and they never, EVER will.

 

[Gamov]

Facts, yo.

Why can't I like a post more than once? : (

 

[Jabonicus]

A nation built by Western European immigrants who drove out or annihilated entirely the native population inhabiting the country beforehand.

Yeah, it's uncanny that anybody'd want to stop enabling mass immigration, what with such a brilliant track record.

Or like how we declared a moratorium on immigration in the 20s after the first Red Scare and all the waves of bombings before it, after we opened ourselves to immigration from chaotic Eastern and Southeastern Europe.

Innocent people - screw innocent people. The government exists to serve Americans, first and last, not foreigners. If I had my way the only people we'd be letting in from just about anywhere would be goddamned astrophysicists and the like, people that it could be proved would be able to advance national interests. Rest of the world can right well go straight to hell.

And yeah, let me tell you, I'm not nuts for all the environmental regulations getting slashed, nor all that federal land out west getting sold to whatever greedy POS decides to pick it up. But honestly, screw everyone that ignored our concerns regarding immigration for the past 20 some-on years. Screw the BLM movement, screw La Raza, screw the greedy Chamber of Commerce types and screw Hollywood. I'm pretty well a single-issue voter by this point and I'll vote for anybody who I think will protect this country, and I do not care in the least what it takes to do so, nor do I even much care for whatever side policies might be pushed.

As for the wall: I don't care if they have to mine the whole desert. If it costs a trillion dollars, I don't care. Most of the trouble regarding stopping illegal immigrants coming from Mexico comes from legal hurdles as opposed to their physical passage, but hey, it's a powerful message.

I hope you guys enjoyed the last 8 years, because things are not going back to the way they used to be and they never, EVER will.

Short term solutions won't fix long term problems, and will only cause more long term problems.

 

[Mazianni]

Short term solutions won't fix long term problems, and will only cause more long term problems.

Believe me, I have every intention that it be very much a long term solution.

It's that or we're just going to have to accept the kind of everyday terrorism the government will use to tear away what few freedoms and rights to privacy that we still have, complete with the total collapse of high-trust society.

BONUS POINT EDIT: I also think we should totally leave the Mid. East alone, if it means anything. Just totally back off, quit toppling governments and funding terrorist organisations. No more of this willy-nilly drone strike crap either.

 

[TWD26]

A nation built by Western European immigrants who drove out or annihilated entirely the native population inhabiting the country beforehand.

Yeah, it's uncanny that anybody'd want to stop enabling mass immigration, what with such a brilliant track record.

Or like how we declared a moratorium on immigration in the 20s after the first Red Scare and all the waves of bombings before it, after we opened ourselves to immigration from chaotic Eastern and Southeastern Europe.

Innocent people - screw innocent people. The government exists to serve Americans, first and last, not foreigners. If I had my way the only people we'd be letting in from just about anywhere would be goddamned astrophysicists and the like, people that it could be proved would be able to advance national interests. Rest of the world can right well go straight to hell.

And yeah, let me tell you, I'm not nuts for all the environmental regulations getting slashed, nor all that federal land out west getting sold to whatever greedy POS decides to pick it up. But honestly, screw everyone that ignored our concerns regarding immigration for the past 20 some-on years. Screw the BLM movement, screw La Raza, screw the greedy Chamber of Commerce types and screw Hollywood. I'm pretty well a single-issue voter by this point and I'll vote for anybody who I think will protect this country, and I do not care in the least what it takes to do so, nor do I even much care for whatever side policies might be pushed.

As for the wall: I don't care if they have to mine the whole desert. If it costs a trillion dollars, I don't care. Most of the trouble regarding stopping illegal immigrants coming from Mexico comes from legal hurdles as opposed to their physical passage, but hey, it's a powerful message.

I hope you guys enjoyed the last 8 years, because things are not going back to the way they used to be and they never, EVER will.

"The moment people come to know love, they run the risk of carrying hate."

Have you traveled the world or spoke to people from other countries? A majority of men and women want the same things you want in this world, to live a peaceful and quiet life, have enough food and money to take care of their family, to be healthy and spend time with their closest friends. You let your idealism and love for our country, an artificial or temporary state, blind you from showing compassion to your fellow man. The world will always have bad things happen, people who try to bend the world and people for their own selfish greed. But, you must never close your heart and shun those that you see different--we all have different experiences, and it is important that you learn to sympathize and look at people from their point of view and not simply your own.

 

[Gamov]

Snip.

I originally had no intentions of responding to this, but...

It's this sort of ultranationlist drivel that leads to the kinds of "everyday terrorism" in government that you seem to think it will prevent. History has born this fact out time and again that when people decide to put their country first before all others - "at any cost" - that's when the terrorism and repression start. That's when social morals break down and we inevitably descend into rampant paranoia and asinine ethnic wars that cost millions of innocent lives.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I hope you guys enjoyed the last 8 years, because things are not going back to the way they used to be and they never, EVER will.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...judge-blocks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide

 

[Mazianni]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...judge-blocks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide

http://nypost.com/2017/01/29/customs-agents-ignore-judge-enforce-trumps-travel-ban-aclu/
Activist judges don't matter to me, and apparently not to US Customs either.

I originally had no intentions of responding to this, but...

It's this sort of ultranationlist drivel that leads to the kinds of "everyday terrorism" in government that you seem to think it will prevent. History has born this fact out time and again that when people decide to put their country first before all others - "at any cost" - that's when the terrorism and repression start. That's when social morals break down and we inevitably descend into rampant paranoia and asinine ethnic wars that cost millions of innocent lives.

Yes. By not letting people into the country they will somehow get in and start launching terror attacks. You've got me there!
Don't want an ethnic war? Don't make the mistake of keeping two or more totally different ethnic groups in the same relative geographical area. See: WW1, Balkans, Pre-WW2 Europe, Middle East, etc

But what do I know? Obviously the only way we're going to end the threat of terrorism is by importing the entire middle east here, where I'm sure they'll drop all the tribal conflict and salafism that made their countries a living hell the second they enjoy a good pulled pork sandwich by their local Sonny's.

"The moment people come to know love, they run the risk of carrying hate."

Have you traveled the world or spoke to people from other countries? A majority of men and women want the same things you want in this world, to live a peaceful and quiet life, have enough food and money to take care of their family, to be healthy and spend time with their closest friends. You let your idealism and love for our country, an artificial or temporary state, blind you from showing compassion to your fellow man. The world will always have bad things happen, people who try to bend the world and people for their own selfish greed. But, you must never close your heart and shun those that you see different--we all have different experiences, and it is important that you learn to sympathize and look at people from their point of view and not simply your own.

I have been to other countries including one of the poorer parts of Mexico, where the cops pack submachine guns and there are lines of beggars on the street. I know what poverty looks like and I have an idea what suffering looks like, and that is one of the first reasons why I hold the views I have in the first place.

Our job is to stick up for our families as foreign people's duty is to theirs. I'm not going to put those I love in needless danger so I can signal about love and tolerance until the next time a man drives a truck through a crowd full of people, no offense. I'll wish the best to those trying to make it by in the crappier parts of the world, and I'll damn well apologize for us going in and right well ruining a few of those countries, but I'm not going to invite them here. In the end that'll just end in misery for all parties involved.

 

[Gamov]

Don't want an ethnic war? Don't make the mistake of keeping two or more totally different ethnic groups in the same relative geographical area. See: WW1, Balkans, Pre-WW2 Europe, Middle East, etc.

lol.. Gotta show them "filthy ethnic types" where they belong, amirite?

Because the forced relocation of entire ethnic groups has never backfired or caused problems before.

Personally, I find your views asinine and dangerous. But since I know there's about as much chance of me changing your opinions as you have of changing mine, I'll wash my hands of this circular discussion and continue to hope that views like this do not become the mainstream.

 

[Mazianni]

lol.. Gotta show them "filthy ethnic types" where they belong, amirite?

Because the forced relocation of entire ethnic groups has never backfired or caused problems before.

Personally, I find your views asinine and dangerous. But since I know there's about as much chance of me changing your opinions as you have of changing mine, I'll wash my hands of this circular discussion and continue to hope that views like this do not become the mainstream.

A sharp pain for a little while is a hell of a lot better than an ache (at best) for a long, long time.

My views helped get Trump elected; suffice to say you'll be seeing more of them.

 

[TWD26]

A sharp pain for a little while is a hell of a lot better than an ache (at best) for a long, long time.

My views helped get Trump elected; suffice to say you'll be seeing more of them.

I'm going to be honest: with your hatred of BLM, approval of detaining Muslims, and approval of building a wall, comes off as you want America to be a White America.

I am conservative myself and i just can't follow your logic.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

I'm going to be honest: with your hatred of BLM, approval of detaining Muslims, and approval of building a wall, comes off as you want America to be a White America.

I am conservative myself and i just can't follow your logic.

Don't play the racist card please. Totally unfair.

 

[Logan]

A sharp pain for a little while is a hell of a lot better than an ache (at best) for a long, long time.

My views helped get Trump elected; suffice to say you'll be seeing more of them.

Doesn't make them even remotely respectable or worth consideration.

People with actual ethics have moved to block Trump on his asinine ideas about the Middle East, I can only assume (and hope) that more intelligent heads prevail when it comes to "the wall" too.

 

[TWD26]

Don't play the racist card please. Totally unfair.

I never said he was racist, nor was I given that impression. But, prejudice, yes.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

Here is what the peaceful middle easterners are doing in Germany. So I think @Mazianni makes a fair, but unpopular, argument.

 

[Miz]

I had an honest conversation with one of those pro-war/white identity conservative types the other day. If questioned hard enough they will admit they could care less about the human rights of minorities or foreigners. In their eyes, they have done something either directly or indirectly to cause their suffering. The state must make "tough decisions" to bomb innocent civilians or resort to torture. The state is never wrong in their choice of who to detain or murder ('cause you know they had it coming eventually). People are poor due to their own unwillingness to work while never noticing everything in life was handed to them.

I also find it strange how #alllivesmatter disappeared into thin air.

Actually, no I don't. Those people never cared about the plights of minorities they just used it as a tool to silence them.

Here is what the peaceful middle easterners are doing in Germany. So I think @Mazianni makes a fair, but unpopular, argument.

I personally wouldn't get my news from such a terrible site. You should probably give everyone's browser history a warning before linking to Breitbart.