President Donald Trump

[Mr.BossMan]

I had an honest conversation with one of those pro-war/white identity conservative types the other day. If questioned hard enough they will admit they could care less about the human rights of minorities or foreigners. In their eyes, they have done something either directly or indirectly to cause their suffering. The state must make "tough decisions" to bomb innocent civilians or resort to torture. The state is never wrong in their choice of who to detain or murder ('cause you know they had it coming eventually). People are poor due to their own unwillingness to work while never noticing everything in life was handed to them.

I also find it strange how #alllivesmatter disappeared into thin air.

Actually, no I don't. Those people never cared about the plights of minorities they just used it as a tool to silence them.



I personally wouldn't get my news from such a terrible site. You should probably give everyone's browser history a warning before linking to Breitbart.

It say's in the article their numbers come from that of the German Interior Ministry....seems credible.

 

[Dmitri]

http://nypost.com/2017/01/29/customs-agents-ignore-judge-enforce-trumps-travel-ban-aclu/
Activist judges don't matter to me, and apparently not to US Customs either.



Yes. By not letting people into the country they will somehow get in and start launching terror attacks. You've got me there!
Don't want an ethnic war? Don't make the mistake of keeping two or more totally different ethnic groups in the same relative geographical area. See: WW1, Balkans, Pre-WW2 Europe, Middle East, etc

But what do I know? Obviously the only way we're going to end the threat of terrorism is by importing the entire middle east here, where I'm sure they'll drop all the tribal conflict and salafism that made their countries a living hell the second they enjoy a good pulled pork sandwich by their local Sonny's.



I have been to other countries including one of the poorer parts of Mexico, where the cops pack submachine guns and there are lines of beggars on the street. I know what poverty looks like and I have an idea what suffering looks like, and that is one of the first reasons why I hold the views I have in the first place.

Our job is to stick up for our families as foreign people's duty is to theirs. I'm not going to put those I love in needless danger so I can signal about love and tolerance until the next time a man drives a truck through a crowd full of people, no offense. I'll wish the best to those trying to make it by in the crappier parts of the world, and I'll damn well apologize for us going in and right well ruining a few of those countries, but I'm not going to invite them here. In the end that'll just end in misery for all parties involved.

Maybe I'm reading too much into the part of not having multiple groups in one area and I apologize if I am but are you advocating for segregation?

 

[Insoulent]

In the end that'll just end in misery for all parties involved.

I don't really care much for political ideology, political happenings, or political factions as much as I used to but this line right here I want to dissect.

Much of how people feel in this country, stems from misery and directly how human beings react to it. Think of this new rising nationalism as more of an identity crisis primarily for "whites" (I put quotations cause we're all just frequencies and compounds). And at the risk of turning this into a racial issue thread, Ill try my best not to, just want to drop that no matter who you talk to, everyone is a little prejudice, and just a sprinkle of racist. It's not something that we as a SPECIES shouldn't shun or ignore, but embrace and learn to overcome as part of the human experience, cause this is where a lot of problems arise. It all stems from ignorance, and all humans are ignorant no matter what - we learn from experience and from living. Wise men know that they know nothing, their minds will always learn.

History has shown that no matter what race one was, what religion they followed, or what political structure they had - they were all human and imperfect and will eventually die off and something new will arise because that's just how human society seems to operate. Whether it be by internal conflict, or external conflict. The key word here is conflict.

No offense, but 90% of whites that complain in America and that voted for Trump don't have any true misery to speak of when they speak out. They have some minor complaints, some pseudo-intellectual comments, and superiority complex because they live in a land that was literally built upon the actual misery of others. Most of them are white, with an unbridled rage that would give Vader a run for his money. They live in low income areas with no jobs, probably have never really seen or even spoken to a Muslim (or any other minority to speak of), and just plain ignorant of the world aside from short clips and articles they get behind a computer screen. Sure, they've probably seen what true poverty looks like in a third world country (radically different than being dirt poor or even homeless in a first world country like the US), but they've never actually had to experience it for themselves. Being Mexican, I can assure you for the most part it's modernized and hasn't really been a third world country since the 1960s. If they got their whole cartel corruption stuff figured out, it'd probably be on par with the US in a few decades. Anyway, back to this new nationalism and Trump supporters.

So how do they deal with this anger? They lashed out, voted for a fraud. They feel ignored, their ideas, their feelings, and their "culture" which is crumbling around them. And its frustrating. "White" nationalism is taking a grip over all of Western Society, and its a message that's been ringing throughout the world not just in the US - they're scared. But they don't know exactly what theyre really mad about, they just know they're scared. And I single out "whites" primarily because this skin color has primarily held power in the western world for well over 1000 years.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty stuff - the people in power have been meddling in lands, countries and places they have no business in and manipulating them into their own selfish interest. Now, when these places retaliate on the ones in power, then the citizens of said Power will suffer. That means us, the Western society.

Uh. I was gonna keep going but damn this got way longer than I wanted it to be, lol. But I like what I wrote so far so I'm not gonna delete it. Anyway, the short of it is: everybody suffers, suffering is part of the human experience. You have to face and embrace that suffering, don't let it consume you. Don't reject anything - even white nationalist drivel or radical muslim idealogy. Learn to understand where and why people are the way they are instead of just promoting your own brand of thinking. Allow others to have their own ideas, no matter how terrible and foreign they are to yours. Learn to be more balanced and appreciate that you really don't have it all that badly. No matter what you might think about radicalism in other parts of the world, it comes from the same place your own radicalism stems from: fear and ignorance. Be brave and embrace the outside and learn as much as you can from every single thing around you and youll find that it's not that much different from what is inside you.

 

[Insoulent]

PS. Yeah, Trump suuuuuuuuuuuucks, but there's a lot more people in power to change whatever it is he will do and keep him in check. It scares me that he's the individual most powerful man in the world, but theres a whole bunch of smaller ones that can overpower him easily. I don't primarily care for the US as a State in all honesty, so I could care less what happens to the Government, but I do care deeply about the humans inside and outside the invisible lines that create nations, to know that Trump and his way of thinking will bring about more harm than good - both short term and long term.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

Is it just me or is bashing on whites the only politically correct racism out there?

It's baffling me that the left and Democrats in this country still think Trump won because of racist white people.

 

[Dmitri]

It's baffling me that the left and Democrats in this country still think Trump won because of racist white people.

Correct. He won electoral college. That is the system the country uses and its the one that mattered to win, regardless of popular vote.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

Correct. He won electoral college. That is the system the country uses and its the one that mattered to win, regardless of popular vote.

Your gonna have to dumb that down for me. I'm not picking up on the point you were trying to make.

EDIT: Are you saying the electoral college is racist?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

If the rulings of the judiciary don't matter to you and you're in favor of the executive ignoring those rulings, you have decided you are fine with the breakdown of our constitutional system and the imposition of an executive dictatorship.

 

[Dmitri]

Your gonna have to dumb that down for me. I'm not picking up on the point you were trying to make.

EDIT: Are you saying the electoral college is racist?

What? No. I wasn't making any point about racism.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

What? No. I wasn't making any point about racism.

Okay, sorry, I was a bit lost.

I said people think he won because of racist white people.

Then you said correct.

Then I was thrown off for a bit. My bad.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

If the rulings of the judiciary don't matter to you and you're in favor of the executive ignoring those rulings, you have decided you are fine with the breakdown of our constitutional system and the imposition of an executive dictatorship.

Would you be so kind as to dumb it down for an ignorant Trump supporter? I'd like to understand your thoughts.

 

[Insoulent]

I already mentioned that everyone is a little bit racist, prejudice or what have you. When you stop ignoring it or trying to hide it and embrace it maybe the conversation will change.

Sure, not everyone (white) who voted for Trump was racist but all (white) racist definitely voted for Trump. But ignoring that fact is counter productive and laughable tbh. But yeah, people dissatisfied with the Government and their stagnancy is what got Trump elected. The media is at fault too, for giving him far too much exposure. You really think he would of won if they didn't showcase how crazy stupid he was? Ignorant and simple people were smitten. Embittered and arrogant people flocked to him because he represented something outside the establishment and was a real protest vote. And the politicians and people in power were forced to vote him in because Hillary wasn't a wildly popular choice like Bernie was. But we're talking about Trump's actions and ideology that we're discussing now not his rise to power. So sit and converse, don't deflect! The US is a left leaning country and will continue to be, probably more so. Because the left relies on communication and cooperation not just individualism. It's more conscious.

And that's what I was eluding to in my post. People in power in the West have primarily been white for the past thousands of years and said whites now have become nervous and agitated that non whites have become more open and influential, even more active, and it makes them scared that they won't be as much anymore. Thus you see the rise of white nationalism in the West because that's what it is. Fear.

You can say you don't want Muslim in the country because they're extremist and radical (when they haven't really been an actual threat inside the country since 2001) but the same can be said for you trying to challenge that terrorist by barring them out of a country that prides itself on being a free open country. You allow them to re-radicalize and reach other fringe groups to their cause - similar to how fringe and radical groups gathered to Trump. Remember we are home of the BRAVE. We should overcome fear with bravery and embrace other, squash the hate.

But what Trump truly wants is less "others" and more "us". No one fears Muslims and radicalism like Republicans (who are statistically majority, white). And this fear will only cause more suffering and more pain.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Would you be so kind as to dumb it down for an ignorant Trump supporter? I'd like to understand your thoughts.

The US government is based on a system of checks and balances. One of those checks is the judicial branch. If they say a law or ruling is illegal or unconstitutional (or, in this case, they stay a rule - aka, put it on hold for judicial review - made by the executive), then the other branches have to abide by that. That's a constitutional republic.

If the executive branch, aka the White House and all executive departments, decides they're not going to follow a ruling by the judiciary, then the system of checks and balances breaks down and we have a situation where the president decides that they and only they are the ones who get to decide what the rules are. That's a dictatorship.

Not to sound condescending, but this is literally civics 101. I shouldn't have to explain this.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

The US government is based on a system of checks and balances. One of those checks is the judicial branch. If they say a law or ruling is illegal or unconstitutional (or, in this case, they stay a rule - aka, put it on hold for judicial review - made by the executive), then the other branches have to abide by that. That's a constitutional republic.

If the executive branch, aka the White House and all executive departments, decides they're not going to follow a ruling by the judiciary, then the system of checks and balances breaks down and we have a situation where the president decides that they and only they are the ones who get to decide what the rules are. That's a dictatorship.

Not to sound condescending, but this is literally civics 101. I shouldn't have to explain this.

No no I understand that what I'm trying to get at was your intention for saying it. It seems to me your saying Trump is somehow negating the Judiciary becoming more of dictator.

I would just like to point out that Obama has a record as the president who took the most executive actions while in office. Something that seems a bit bad, as he often times just skipped the checks and balances process.

So ya, there's that.

 

[Gamov]

I would just like to point out that Obama has a record as the president who took the most executive actions while in office. Something that seems a bit bad, as he often times just skipped the checks and balances process.

So ya, there's that.

Untrue.

Obama actually issued fewer executive orders (277) across his two terms in office than either George W. Bush (291) or Bill Clinton (364). In fact, the president who has issued the most executive orders was Franklin Roosevelt (3,000+), but I think we can all agree his circumstances were significantly different than those faced by any president since.

Source article

 

[Mr.BossMan]

Untrue.

Obama actually issued fewer executive orders (277) across his two terms in office than either George W. Bush (291) or Bill Clinton (364). In fact, the president who has issued the most executive orders was Franklin Roosevelt (3,000+), but I think we can all agree his circumstances were significantly different than those faced by any president since.

Source article

Nope not untrue.
I said executive actions not orders.

 

[Dmitri]

Untrue.

Obama actually issued fewer executive orders (277) across his two terms in office than either George W. Bush (291) or Bill Clinton (364). In fact, the president who has issued the most executive orders was Franklin Roosevelt (3,000+), but I think we can all agree his circumstances were significantly different than those faced by any president since.

Source article

Not untrue. Alternate facts

 

[Gamov]

I said executive actions not orders.

Executive action is itself a very broad (and vague) term which can include executive orders as well. Or really anything the president calls on Congress or his administration to do for that matter. In either case though, the distinction should be made that while executive orders are legally binding (but which are reversible in courts or by Congressional legislation), executive actions carry no legal weight. They are more like... "wish lists" detailing what the president would like to see happen.

So in that regard, I guess Obama might have wished more than any other president?

I'd like to see a source article detailing your claims though.

 

[Insoulent]

At the very least Trump will go down in History and I'm here to witness this.

 

[Malon]

No no I understand that what I'm trying to get at was your intention for saying it. It seems to me your saying Trump is somehow negating the Judiciary becoming more of dictator.

I would just like to point out that Obama has a record as the president who took the most executive actions while in office. Something that seems a bit bad, as he often times just skipped the checks and balances process.

So ya, there's that.

The difference is, when a judge put a hold on one of President Obama's executive orders/actions, the judge's orders were respected until the courts could resolve the issue—as it is supposed to work in a checks-and-balances system.

In the case of President Trump, the agencies involved decided to ignore the judiciary and continued to execute the president's orders. That is not cool. Now, it's all well and good that certain elements dislike "activist judges," but the ability (or inability) to "care" about them is frankly irrelevant. Our system of government is set up so that one branch does not have too much power. When Trump's orders are followed above that of the other two branches, then there is no room for debate: that is dictatorship, it is no longer a republic.

In summation, the amount of executive orders means nothing. It is the blatant disregard for our government's system of checks-and-balances that is so appalling.

Although, as a side note, I find it curious that Republicans and conservatives were constantly complaining about executive orders being an abuse of power (see "unconstitutional") under the previous president; but now that it is their guy in office, they are not only fine with it, but they are cheering it on. Is your indignation only directed at the opposition party, or will you call out your own people when they violate your principles?