The Force

[Toska]

I
The problem is, the moment we start to define the capabilities of powers is the moment we have to do a full write up of all powers. Part of the pull of SWRP is that we dont have exhaustive rewrites of canon or writeups of every tiny detail that must be read before posting. Its a massive turnoff to new members, and its unlikely for us to head down that road just to cater to an outspoken minority of members.

Earlier, I suggested that you reconfigure only a select few powers that are questionable so that they become acceptable for use on SWRP, and if you don't feel like you have time, open it up to members to send in articles in your stead.

 

[Green Ranger]

Once we redefine one power, we have to define them all according to how 'our universe' so to speak handles them. Any halfway attempt to fix only a few is just clunky and confusing and bring more questions from new members then its worth, especially for something this silly and trivial.

 

[Toska]

Once we redefine one power, we have to define them all according to how 'our universe' so to speak handles them. Any halfway attempt to fix only a few is just clunky and confusing and bring more questions from new members then its worth, especially for something this silly and trivial.

I don't really see how. All it requires is to create a list of banned powers and then provide alternatives with similar effects, if you boil it down. There are already banned powers without a formal list, so I don't see how listing them out with an addendum providing an out-clause becomes clunky. Why would you need to define everything?

 

[Colt556]

I have to agree with Toska. I really don't see why writing up on some powers mandates they all get write-ups or it becomes confusing or clunky. By that logic banning them outright causes the same problem, you're still altering the power. Just by banning them you're altering them by going 'you can't use them.' I honestly can't see why giving a write-up to, say, phase would require a write-up for force push.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Adena isn't :Bac or every Admin.

This is probably the dumbest argument a person can make. If I was responsible for telling you every decision, then I wouldn't have any other admins. It'd just be me. But it's not just me. There's an entire staff of people perfectly qualified to answer questions like this. Hell, I don't know anything about Force powers. My character uses Push and Pull and just makes it look fancy. Beyond that? I'm useless. Guess who's not: Adena.

Don't bettlie other staff members by pretending that what they say isn't valid just because you don't like what they have to say.

 

[The Kyzer]

I vote with Kiro that this thread needs a serious lock before the ban-hammer starts-a flying.

I would also like to draw attention to the fact that Adena (Empress) is one of the two RP Admins, the people who give the rulings on things like this, right?

Role-Play Administrators, shortened to RP Admins, are the admins responsible for overseeing the role-play here on The Star Wars RP. One of the primary roles of the RP Admins is dispute resolution; if a ruling needs to be made on a thread, these are the admins who will step in and do so.

The current Role-Play Administrators are Adena and Johnny. They perform the following individual roles:

Adena is focused on creating role-play events for the timeline, as well as being a major driving force behind the Legacies storylines.
Johnny is responsible for overseeing the Planets and Species profile boards, where he approves or rejects planet and species profiles depending on whether they meet the profile requirements and the rules of the website.


Each of the RP Admins should be approached for matters pertaining to their specific roles, and any of them can be approached for general RP questions and assistance.

Copy/pasted directly from the Staff Job Descriptions thread. Pretty sure this falls into their jurisdiction.

 

[Empress]

for the record though in case I was not clear... I never said " all" of these were banned, or not, Im expressing that when something has a flat out ban on it- its not reasonless


for the abilities asked about? A good way to approach them is with a little critical thinking, and also account that " just because you dont intent to misuse an ability does not mean that others will be so wise, if its something that is over the top or very likely to be abused or used to auto out of things, it most likely wont fly." - its sort of a common sense thing, but as said if there was a particular situation or reason to use something and your not sure, feel free to pm it, that way too even if a said ability is too much, there is always a way to find something that will work just as well to serve a point usually.


so how do I see these?

Doppelganger is more as how its misused, Its only a visual and audio trick- wont work with droids and should not work against force users - now for example though if someone tried to say while in a duel - oh you did'nt cut me that was my doppelganger!- then it would be called back- but other than that it really is not a power that messes with anything much and has flaws and not a perfect ability

Mechu-deru is rareish iirc, and falls under a artisan like ability, and not too different from some of the mechanics of say shatter point to an extent in being able to get a feel for the inner workings of things. Is it do-able? yes- it again is not a perfect thing. but if someone were to think they could just use it to control thousands of war droid , then no only one character ever did that and really the focus would be insane and beyond the ability by most anyway- its a common sense thing with this one ( if it seems like over kill- it most likely is)


phase: highly prone to abuse

flow: its basically a metagame tool in many/most situations ( some people just can't help themselves) though the hindsight is less bothersome- Id say this is something one may ask about for a given situation in its intended use- though the " seeing the future " wont work

dream-scape is vague, very very vague....and seems more something a very very very few could do- This I would consider a case by case situation if it was for a story element and everyone involved was with it and the one using it was of an appropriate level? think it would be fine. the main problem again is the vagueness, it does not state what the user using it is experiencing, how tired they are, how much focus does it require? if it was just thrown out in the field whats to not just use that time to simply have a free kill while they are in lala land? I would be more than happy to allow it in say a controlled raining situation, exploring the subconscious between companions yadda yadda, as an attack it becomes highly problematic.

force flight is basically just levitation to a next level... while rareish requiring high levels but lets also not think of it in terms as someone in a speeder, or with a backpack or wings


that atleast is my two cents on those Tosk

 

[Toska]

For the record, I intended on relegating the use of these powers to NPCs for plot reasons rather than having a personal character use them. Phase was the one I was most concerned about, as I don't have much of a working knowledge about the power, and heard it was often abused, but Force Flight and... Fold was it? also came up. What are your thoughts on Force Fold in particular? I noticed a few earlier on, but nothing that seemed like a finalized statement.

However, I would like to bring Dark Transfer back up, as it does have the potential to be an amazing plot device when used strictly for story-telling. I can't imagine it being used in combat, or in any situation unless the user is planning on dying and has adequate time to make the preparations, but it seems like the kind of ability that could be used in a Legacy plot (are those still occurring?), similarly self-contained story, or between faction leaders in order to emphasize a certain point in the plot.

 

[The Kyzer]

I suggest writing up explicitly what you want to do with it, and ask Adena nicely.

 

[Empress]

I believe dark transfer's skill is forgotten iirc, Cade pretty much let the secret of it die with him because it was too much from what I remember, but the problem comes again with things like resurrecting, or pulling it out of the blue to try and heal ones self in a fight or basically negate- ( insert affliction or what have you) effect -so yeah it could be a great plot tool, like it was in the comic, the problem is the balancing, and once you open the floodgates....

Ive always said as well a good way to tell how difficult or rare a force ability is is to research it...if virtually nobody is mentioned in being a user, and or they are all master/darth levels - its an indication too that its an ability beyond many ( even within the other masters and darths)

 

[Sleven]

This is probably the dumbest argument a person can make. If I was responsible for telling you every decision, then I wouldn't have any other admins. It'd just be me. But it's not just me. There's an entire staff of people perfectly qualified to answer questions like this. Hell, I don't know anything about Force powers. My character uses Push and Pull and just makes it look fancy. Beyond that? I'm useless. Guess who's not: Adena.

Don't bettlie other staff members by pretending that what they say isn't valid just because you don't like what they have to say.

You've taken one thing I've said and thrown it far out of context. Adena is not being belittled by me here. She is actually a person on this forum I have a great deal of respect for because of all she's done for it. People choose to take certain things out of what people say, and make their own meaning for them. All you have to do is ask for clarification instead of jumping to something negative.

The larger point me and others in this thread (namely Colt) where making, that that remark was part of is that: there is no universal consensus on many of these things. I don't believe it's right to say that things are banned simply because one admin thinks it should be. That leads to some sort of disorganized patchwork cloth of "unwritten" and "I got you!" forum rules. It's far better to say "Yes this power has been agreed upon to be banned by the Staff as a whole, we know it isn't written down (which is also one of your concerns and reason why you think it holds little validity) but please bear with us as this is a long and arduous process. Until we work out the kinks, assume x, y, and z are banned blah blah blah." That's something I can understand, but it should be stated as such. I don't like to jump to unwarranted conclusions about people or what they're doing but I have seen personal bias come into play with certain admins (not saying that's what Adena is doing here), so sorry if I don't see one post one admin wrote at one point in time in an unofficial discussion thread as a "formal no" to something.

 

[Green Ranger]

Just as an FYI, I'm planning to have a list up by the end of the day.

 

[Dóiteán]

snip

Things are banned by staff agreement. All the staff agree to ban something.

 

[Green Ranger]

Just as an FYI, I'm planning to have a list up by the end of the day.

Just a quick head's up, I'm waiting to hear back on a couple of people to review the list. It should be up no later then tomorrow, sorry about the delay.

 

[Sleven]

Just a quick head's up, I'm waiting to hear back on a couple of people to review the list. It should be up no later then tomorrow, sorry about the delay.

S'all gud.

 

[Toska]

I believe dark transfer's skill is forgotten iirc, Cade pretty much let the secret of it die with him because it was too much from what I remember, but the problem comes again with things like resurrecting, or pulling it out of the blue to try and heal ones self in a fight or basically negate- ( insert affliction or what have you) effect -so yeah it could be a great plot tool, like it was in the comic, the problem is the balancing, and once you open the floodgates....

Ive always said as well a good way to tell how difficult or rare a force ability is is to research it...if virtually nobody is mentioned in being a user, and or they are all master/darth levels - its an indication too that its an ability beyond many ( even within the other masters and darths)

To be fair, even if a power becomes lost knowledge, one should eventually be able to replicate it. That makes the assumption that Force Powers started as trial and error in the first place, but hey, I'll gladly make that assumption and call it a day.

Putting that aside, I dislike the potential for abuse argument. If it ever is abused, and done in such a way that it effects other players or the main story, it will be caught. It's not like allowing Force Phase will prompt people to start phasing through lightsabers and blaster fire. The power actually doesn't work that way, and instances of abuse are easily curbed by reporting the post to an admin. Considering how proactive the staff is when it comes to duels/skirmishes/battles, I'd rather there isn't and real risk of abuse. But perhaps that strayed a bit far from the point.

 

[Rom]

Call me old fashioned but I dislike the idea of phasing through matter, as it certainly can be used in a PvP situation, namely running away. Pull a kitty pride as you'rebeing chased by ssomeone and suddenly you're five rooms and a hallway ahead of them.

Same with teleport, magically getting out of range of an explosion or trap, for example.

 

[Toska]

Sleven addressed all of those points earlier in the thread.

 

[Rom]

He mentioner limits because you can't phase through an explosion. I'm not talking about phasing through an attack - I'm talking about phasing through a wall, and running. Blowing up a piece of the wall doesn't do jack if I literally dove through it and came out the other side and kept on running.

And same with teleport, dodging an attack mid attack, no. But seeing a net falling or walls closing or being boxed in by speeders or soldiers, and suddenly poof you're on the roof and waving cheekily as you run away.

 

[Toska]

No, he mentioned the amount of concentration and limited room for error. It's not feasible for anyone to use those powers in a combat situation due to the high stress and complete focus required. They also take massive amounts of energy, so the attempt makes you utterly defenseless. Phase in particular is risky, as accidents are prone to happen even in the best circumstances.

For either power, you need to set aside absolute concentration and quite a bit of your power (this is assuming an average Jedi Master) in order for them to work successfully. In combat, trying to phase through walls to escape opens you up to a counter attack, and you are vulnerable the instant you use the power. As long as your opponent is within eyesight, he can kill you as soon as you begin the move. Teleport takes time to accomplish, time that you do not have in combat. Maybe the Grandmaster would be able to block a few lightsaber attacks while preparing to Teleport, but a Force barrage? You'd be defenseless.

Again, I'm just parroting off what Sleven said/linked, but I honestly don't see how that is open for abuse on such a well-moderated site.