Anonymous

[Toska]

You're making the assumption that the killing was police brutality, or racially spurred, but those details have yet to be investigated in full. Quite a few people are, including the article I linked in the first post and the majority of people sharing it on Facebook (tagged with comments like, "Finally justice!" or "Kill the pigs!" etc.). Police brutality is one issue, but not the only one we should be focused on here.

Riots broke out last night in the township, which included the burning of a gas station and some minor looting. Several of the protestors/mob were injured as the police attempted to disperse the riots.

Anonymous threatened to leak the personal information of the officers in the Ferguson police department -- including those unrelated to the Michael Brown incident. That puts a large number of people at risk, especially once the officer who shot Michael Brown is identified. I see that as an issue. Whether or not this is a case of police brutality is being investigated. The propagation of violence through cyber terrorism which immediately endangers the lives of those employed by Ferguson's police department? I'm more worried about them right now.

 

[TWD26]

Well Anon is not what It used to be, it's always been overhyped, they raided some great places alright, hobo hotel-not. The Anon of once is no longer around, instead it's mostly a bunch of 14-18 years old script kiddies that think they are edgy. Anon is a joke.

 

[Toska]

Well Anon is not what It used to be, it's always been overhyped, they raided some great places alright, hobo hotel-not. The Anon of once is no longer around, instead it's mostly a bunch of 14-18 years old script kiddies that think they are edgy. Anon is a joke.

I believe that's precisely what makes this situation dangerous.

 

[TWD26]

I believe that's precisely what makes this situation dangerous.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Ser Gregor]

How is interrupting communications between police and city officials helpful, at all? Great, way to hamper their ability to investigate the shooting even further.

Anonymous should stick to hunting down animal abusers. That seems to be the only time they act in a sensible, helpful way.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I wish there was a strong voice in the african american community who could help organize people and keep them in line. I want to support the Mike Brown protesters but then I hear the police stepped in because they started looting and burning crap. What does that do to support the cause of seeing a proper investigation happen? Screw al sharpton as well, the guys a vulture and doesn't care about black people at all, only on getting his own name and hype out there when it suites him.

Also, I can't say I agree with their approach of giving out names and addresses of everyone in the department. We got a situation where people are mad at the police, in a high crime area where shootings and break ins are, let's be honest, pretty common. And now finding out where they live is going to be made super easy? It's just a recipe for a lot of violence and bloodshed opened up by people on both sides using emotions over logic and doing something stupid that makes everything worse.

 

[Insoulent]

You're making the assumption that the killing was police brutality, or racially spurred, but those details have yet to be investigated in full. Quite a few people are, including the article I linked in the first post and the majority of people sharing it on Facebook (tagged with comments like, "Finally justice!" or "Kill the pigs!" etc.). Police brutality is one issue, but not the only one we should be focused on here.

Riots broke out last night in the township, which included the burning of a gas station and some minor looting. Several of the protestors/mob were injured as the police attempted to disperse the riots.

Anonymous threatened to leak the personal information of the officers in the Ferguson police department -- including those unrelated to the Michael Brown incident. That puts a large number of people at risk, especially once the officer who shot Michael Brown is identified. I see that as an issue. Whether or not this is a case of police brutality is being investigated. The propagation of violence through cyber terrorism which immediately endangers the lives of those employed by Ferguson's police department? I'm more worried about them right now.

Thing is, your reality of a police officer might be radically different to another person. No offense, but I doubt 90% of the members on this forum have ever been racially profiled or belittled by the men and women who are supposed to "serve protect" the people. You might not know what it's like, and it's not even entirely a race thing, it's a battle against that police-mentality.

If your officers, sure it's a reality that one or two sour grapes might sneak through and be abusive of their power (that's even expected), but if the officers constantly fight against the progression of an entire community of people, wouldn't that frustrate you? Even a little? This isn't a problem that just sprung up yesterday, or is some brand new sensation sweeping the nation recently. It's something that's been doing on in America specifically towards the African-American community since the first slaves landed on Jamestown. Slavery, civil rights, LA riots, and yet...you don't find it strange that nothing's changed? Not even a little? How much of a norm it is? Even politically, officers generally get a slap in the wrist, at worst a suspension with no pay, and what, the community sits in silence? That's not entirely fair. And the justice system does what to correct this, really?

I don't exactly support Anon's whole agenda of throwing out addresses of police officers not involved with the actual act, but it could definitely be construed as a fight against the mentality and corruption that a lot of police officers have, especially towards minorities and "lower-class" citizens. It's not only an abuse in power, but an abuse of trust. A simple way for the officers to avoid that fate: let the protesters protest and express their anger to their fullest ability. That should show the world, just how raw that anger and frustration is towards these police officers, because they didn't uphold their end of their bargain. I also don't say either is wrong, because that automatically entitles another's way of thinking to be correct, when it's not. Just two routes any one person could take.

I stand more towards dialogue and understanding, versus sudden-reaction and further bloodshed, but if it's something that is so repetitive and almost a norm in the culture, something definitely has to change. But also, to say you wouldn't fight against injustice, whether it be peacefully or taking up arms is something I don't agree with.

 

[Dmitri]

And at this point, some people won't care what the truth is, but the portrayed truth. Whatever gets released as the official and actual case of what happened, all this hype Anonymous has stirred will have people think it's false if it doesn't point to police brutality and that the report is just trying to cover up for their buddies.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

A simple way for the officers to avoid that fate: let the protesters protest and express their anger to their fullest ability. That should show the world, just how raw that anger and frustration is towards these police officers, because they didn't uphold their end of their bargain. I also don't say either is wrong, because that automatically entitles another's way of thinking to be correct, when it's not. Just two routes any one person could take.

I don't see how that's fair to the store owners, property owners, or employees of the stores that get looted and burned. What did they do to deserve this so called justified anger and frustration?

And I also don't see how giving drive by shooters clear instructions on how to do a drive by shooting on the cops is a good solution to this either.

You speak of justice and yet all I see is justifications for violence and crimes under the guise of people being angry over this shooting. If they're so angry maybe they aught to stop the people taking advantage of this tragedy to commit crimes, and show up the corrupt cops instead of demonstrating such a shameful display.

 

[Insoulent]

I don't see how that's fair to the store owners, property owners, or employees of the stores that get looted and burned. What did they do to deserve this so called justified anger and frustration?

And I also don't see how giving drive by shooters clear instructions on how to do a drive by shooting on the cops is a good solution to this either.

Right, but that's looking at an entire other series of systems of thinking that fail the lower-class citizenship which is much bigger than just police brutality. Racial profiling (minorities account for more than 60% of prisons), while white-collar CEOs spend a few months in a cozy resort "prison". You have a whole generation of kids with no fathers, no programs to aide their success, and a whole bunch of other things I could go on about. Though that's just scratching the surface of it.

But I agree, it's not fair, but they also got insurance so it cushions the fall a bit, don't you think? Even if it went peacefully, the rest of the community suffers, through this medium more lives are effected, and in turn another point in discussing the event continues. Get where I'm going with this? Awareness and duologue are essential...which brings me to Weiss' post.

And I agree Weiss! Troubled waters no matter what. That's what happens when injustices occur. No one is, or should be content with it either. Suppression makes it worse.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Right, but that's looking at an entire other series of systems of thinking that fail the lower-class citizenship which is much bigger than just police brutality, though that's scratching the surface of it. But I agree, it's not fair, but they also got insurance so it cushions the fall a bit, don't you think? Even if it went peacefully, the rest of the community suffers, through this medium more lives are effected, and in turn another point in discussing the event continues. Get where I'm going with this? Awareness and duologue are essential...which brings me to Weiss' post.

And I agree Weiss! Troubled waters no matter what. That's what happens when injustices occur. No one is, or should be content with it either. Suppression makes it worse.

No. I'm going full lawful stupid here and I will admit it. But there's no real justification I can see for dragging in what are essentially innocent bystanders and ****ing up their lives.

What's next? Justified random assaults to try and show how angry they still are? I mean, the people they beat up probably do have health insurance so it'll cushion the fall don't you think?

I don't care what their income level is, they have a responsibility to their community to not trash the crap out of it whenever something bad happens. If it's just anything goes because they're angry, what's the point of even having a community in the first place if its the first thing they go after with violence?

 

[Blaxican]

Anonymous ****ing sucks. They don't ever actually get anything productive done- all their actions do is serve as justification for ISP's and the Government to lock down our internet rights under the guise of "security".

Also, they're a bunch of punks. They talk a good game when they're hacing libraries and schools and shit, but they crumpled pretty fast when they tried to **** with the Mexican cartels and the cartels hired hackers of their own to track down Anon members and kidnap them. lulz

 

[Dmitri]

And I agree Weiss! Troubled waters no matter what. That's what happens when injustices occur. No one is, or should be content with it either. Suppression makes it worse.

In this case, it's not the media or the police that are suppressing the truth. It's Anonymous. May not be the intent they're aiming for, but that's what is happening.

 

[Insoulent]

No. I'm going full lawful stupid here and I will admit it. But there's no real justification I can see for dragging in what are essentially innocent bystanders and ****ing up their lives.

What's next? Justified random assaults to try and show how angry they still are? I mean, the people they beat up probably do have health insurance so it'll cushion the fall don't you think?

I don't care what their income level is, they have a responsibility to their community to not trash the crap out of it whenever something bad happens. If it's just anything goes because they're angry, what's the point of even having a community in the first place if its the first thing they go after with violence?

ObamaCare would cushion the random acts of violence, yeah, I agree. ^_^ But what I'm saying is, you're looking at "look at what they're doing now", versus what I'm trying to say which is "look at what lead up to them doing this now". See the dynamic? I agree, partly, but anything can be justified by anyone if they truly believe strongly enough about it. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong, that further creates a division in the problem and makes it harder to resolve.

Thinking any civilization can truly act out their supposed "civility" at all times is preposterous too. We're humans, and even at our most intricate state in our development as a species, we're still ****ing idiots. But for some reason, we don't really try to figure out why for very long. But the fact is, we don't hone up to our misgivings and move on to build more castles on top of sand, in a sense. As for their community, it's also a show of aggravation that from where they are from, and their level in society, that's what they have to resort to, which should be another indicator of just how messed up our current system is.

@Weiss, to think we'd ever get the whole story is a bit crazy too.

@Anon as a whole. Eh, I'm just glad that they take the time to care about something other than whatever is in the "News" today. Good sign of progress, albeit twisted as it might be.

EDIT: Sorry, I think the people who are looting and burning buildings down should be arrested. I'm just saying you can't really call their reasons unjustified or condemn them in a social setting. You have to look at the bigger picture than just how they react, but look into the "why".

 

[Ser Gregor]

I agree, partly, but anything can be justified by anyone if they truly believe strongly enough about it. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong, that further creates a division in the problem and makes it harder to resolve.

Wow. Yes, anything can be justified on a personal level, but that does not mean that it is a justifiable action. That line of reasoning is ridiculously dangerous. Putin has justified Russia's actions in Ukraine. Does that make them justifiable? NO!

EDIT:

@Anon as a whole. Eh, I'm just glad that they take the time to care about something other than whatever is in the "News" today. Good sign of progress, albeit twisted as it might be.

You've clearly not been watching the news. The incident Anonymous is responding to has been all over media outlets. In fact, Anonymous only goes after things currently trending on news outlets.

 

[Insoulent]

Wow. Yes, anything can be justified on a personal level, but that does not mean that it is a justifiable action. That line of reasoning is ridiculously dangerous. Putin has justified Russia's actions in Ukraine. Does that make them justifiable? NO!

That's bending even more towards morality (or lack-thereof) and social commentary/stigma. There's people in Ukraine that still hold onto the belief of Russia becoming a major power again, "Mother Russia" and all that. Just because the international community doesn't agree with it or support it doesn't make it any less real.

Speaking of which, don't think I fully support Russia, Ukraine, or the police and protesters. I don't. What I do support is trying to learn more about why it happens and becoming better acquainted with the subject. And recognizing each side, and not belittling either or condemning them. You minimize your view of the situation.

EDIT: Yes, you're right. I don't keep up with the news, rather depressing/underwhelming to be honest. Rather focus on uplifting someone than degrading another.

 

[Ser Gregor]

That's bending even more towards morality (or lack-thereof) and social commentary/stigma. There's people in Ukraine that still hold onto the belief of Russia becoming a major power again, "Mother Russia" and all that. Just because the international community doesn't agree with it or support it doesn't make it any less real.

You mean the ethnic Russians that the Soviet Union moved in to Ukraine to shore up the popular support for the USSR? Those 'Ukrainians' that still consider themselves 100% Russian? Those are the people who still believe in Great Mother Russia.

Russia wants her Empire back, and she'll stop at very little to achieve that. Try and justify it all you want, it's simple, outdated 20th century imperialism trying to succeed in the 21st century. The international community is vehemently opposed to traditional imperialism. The justifications behind it (protecting 'ethnic Russians') are simple, poor misdirections to attempt to draw the eyes away from the naked imperialism of the crisis.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

But what I'm saying is, you're looking at "look at what they're doing now", versus what I'm trying to say which is "look at what lead up to them doing this now".
....
EDIT: Sorry, I think the people who are looting and burning buildings down should be arrested. I'm just saying you can't really call their reasons unjustified or condemn them in a social setting. You have to look at the bigger picture than just how they react, but look into the "why".

Well you see, I can. I can because I look at what led them up to it and I can fault them for their faulty reasoning. The why is simple, opportunism. The chance to take advantage of chaos and better themselves with material goods they normally wouldn't possess. The reason for it is their outlook that the community owes them things and not the other way around. A lot of the lower class people don't have a sense of responsibility for where they live, its not their property, its not their kid, its not their business, why give a crap about those people when my immediate needs are the bigger priority. There's also a sense of entitlement, that they're allowed to do this because of what their grandfathers or great grandfathers before them faced in the civil rights era.

I notice a lot of people bring up the struggles of the civil rights but notice one thing those struggles rarely involved, the looting of local stores and businesses and a much stronger focus on education, integration, and being allowed to become part of the fold of american society. Now the message has changed, its become one of fighting against the society, of embracing a destructive subculture of crime, violence, drug use, and irresponsibility because they feel society is against them fully.

You may not agree but things have changed. Societies and cultures outlook on people has changed. Acceptance has grown, racism is now one of the top offenses socially in this country, and the vast majority now stands on the side of the downtrodden minority. But for the low income people they see society as having stayed the same since the 1950's where a man who walks into a store can expect to get lynched because of their skin color, and the general accepted outlook is **** doing things like going to school, getting a job, sticking around when you have a kid with someone, paying back debts, all of that. I grew up alongside those guys in a public school in a so-so bad area. They have this mentality that society owes them for everything, and that they have no responsibility to society back.

Their "why we got like this" was forced onto them, but its their job to force it off of them. Defending their actions as somehow acceptable because they're angry, because their grandparents were wrongfully punished decades ago, is just stupid.

 

[Insoulent]

You mean the ethnic Russians that the Soviet Union moved in to Ukraine to shore up the popular support for the USSR? Those 'Ukrainians' that still consider themselves 100% Russian? Those are the people who still believe in Great Mother Russia.

Russia wants her Empire back, and she'll stop at very little to achieve that. Try and justify it all you want, it's simple, outdated 20th century imperialism trying to succeed in the 21st century. The international community is vehemently opposed to traditional imperialism. The justifications behind it (protecting 'ethnic Russians') are simple, poor misdirections to attempt to draw the eyes away from the naked imperialism of the crisis.

Well it seemed to work in some capicity, so that speaks volumes about something, no? I'm not very well informed with eurasian society and history though, so there's that and process it how you will. But imperialism works for some people, outdated or not. There's always going to be extremists of something, and systems that work for different societies. "To each their own" and all that.

Anyway, I got to help my cousin with his wedding arrangements. Good talk all around.

 

[TWD26]

Like I said before, fighting injustice with more injustice solves nothing. People need to push for a peaceful dialogue-peaceful protests with clear leaders coming up and speaking about this problem we have across the United States. With that mentioned there are many other problems that need to be addressed in these communities and with that things will be able to progress.