Faction Training and Ranks

[Brandon Rhea]

We've spoken a bit in public now about training and ranks for the new timeline, but we haven't had a dedicated announcement about them - until now. We've made some big changes to training and ranks for Dawn of the Republic.

In a nutshell: training will no longer be a formal part of main factions, and the starting rank in main factions will be the Jedi Knight level (or whatever the equivalent rank is in other factions).

Here are some of the big reasons behind that:

• Why is training being eliminated? Training is something we've tried to make work effectively for years now. Unfortunately, no matter what we attempt to do, it makes very little difference to the fact that training is a months-long process that acts as a barrier for new members getting more actively engaged in the timeline. If you have to spend 2-3 months learning how to be a Jedi or be a Sith, that's 2-3 months that you're not getting actively involved in the main plot of the timeline. We've tried, in the past, to make training more about missions, but inevitably those missions end up being tangential to the timeline. It also doesn't solve the issue of having to be in training threads, like classes or other forms of instruction.
• I thought training was a good way for new members to learn about the site, though? We told ourselves that for years. Theoretically, it's true. In some theoretical perfect training environment on the site, it makes sense that it's a good way for people to build RP relationships, learn about the factions, learn about the site, and more. In practice, it's just a barrier to entry. We want to remove that barrier. The best way to learn about the site and to get involved in the timeline is to dive right in. By allowing people to get actively involved right away, we think we'll avoid a lot of the dropoff that we see where members register, sign up for a faction, and then disappear.
• Why start people off at the Jedi Knight level? It immediately makes you part of the core of the faction. Whether it's Jedi Knight or its Sith equivalent, that's the main rank of a main faction, so starting off with it means you can immediately be part of the action and be part of the core group of the faction. You've earned it just by virtue of joining the faction.
• Does this mean I can't be a Padawan? You can be a Padawan (or its equivalent in other factions) if you want, but it won't be a formal rank in the factions. Because training also won't be a formal part of the factions, if you want to go through training with a master then it will be your responsibility to find that master to work with you. Every faction will have its own dedicated OOC board, of course, so you can always ask there if anyone is interested in being your character's master.
• Can I start off as a higher rank than Jedi Knight? This is another interesting thing we're doing with ranks at the start of this timeline: except for Faction Leaders and Assistant Faction Leaders, no one will have a rank higher than the Jedi Knight level when the timeline begins. That makes everyone part of the core group, and it means that no one gets a higher rank without earning it first.

That last part is related to another important point about starting everyone off at the Knight level too. Training was only required for people who hadn't gone through it before. So if you'd been through training on the site, even if it was years ago, you could have automatically started off as a Jedi Knight, while new members had to start at the bottom. That's not entirely unreasonable, but at the same time, without that context or understanding, it could look to new members like they were being penalized for their registration date. Now, between the elimination of training as a requirement and the fact that non-FL/AFLs won't have a rank above the Knight level at the start of the timeline, everyone starts off on equal footing.

Over the next few days, we'll have an announcement about what the ranks actually are. In the meantime, if you have any questions about what was announced here, please feel free to let us know. We're really excited about this change because we think it'll be hugely beneficial to the site, so we hope you like it as well!

 

[Logan]

Is there going to be a hard and fast rule in regards to FS indies? I know the consensus I've always seen, at least in last TL, was "slightly weaker Knight variant" but I never saw anything specific about that.

Sorry if you mentioned it in here, I'm at work and had to do a quick skim.

 

[Richie B.]

looks great

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Is there going to be a hard and fast rule in regards to FS indies? I know the consensus I've always seen, at least in last TL, was "slightly weaker Knight variant" but I never saw anything specific about that.

Sorry if you mentioned it in here, I'm at work and had to do a quick skim.

I don't have a 100% firm answer for that yet, but I think it will be twofold:

• By default, an indie character can also start off as Knight-equivalent. I don't think we'd treat indie characters any differently in that regard.
• Indie factions can set their own rules for whether they want to require training.

That being said, it's not as big of a deal as it used to be because of how we're really trying to separate rank and power levels, so hopefully that will translate through effectively to indie factions as well.

 

[Marcus]

Thanks for firming this one up, Brandon et al. Can't wait to see the actual ranks/names (just for my own excitement)!

 

[Oreus]

I like this. Are FL and AFL being decided by Think Tank as well or is that something that will come later from Staff? If that's off topic I apologize just really want to know who is leading my group.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I like this. Are FL and AFL being decided by Think Tank as well or is that something that will come later from Staff? If that's off topic I apologize just really want to know who is leading my group.

The ultimate decision comes from the staff, though we'll probably ask the think tank for thoughts too. How we go about it choosing FLs, like whether we open up applications or if it's something we choose ourselves, hasn't been decided yet though.

 

[TWD26]

Keep up with the great work Admins and think tank members. I appreciate the changes you're making and the work that's been done. Overall, I see many positive changes at least on paper.

 

[Aurek]

YES!

I didn't much enjoy training threads. I'm happy as hell with this announcement

Thanks admins

 

[Saul]

We've spoken a bit in public now about training and ranks for the new timeline, but we haven't had a dedicated announcement about them - until now. We've made some big changes to training and ranks for Dawn of the Republic.

In a nutshell: training will no longer be a formal part of main factions, and the starting rank in main factions will be the Jedi Knight level (or whatever the equivalent rank is in other factions).

Here are some of the big reasons behind that:

• Why is training being eliminated? Training is something we've tried to make work effectively for years now. Unfortunately, no matter what we attempt to do, it makes very little difference to the fact that training is a months-long process that acts as a barrier for new members getting more actively engaged in the timeline. If you have to spend 2-3 months learning how to be a Jedi or be a Sith, that's 2-3 months that you're not getting actively involved in the main plot of the timeline. We've tried, in the past, to make training more about missions, but inevitably those missions end up being tangential to the timeline. It also doesn't solve the issue of having to be in training threads, like classes or other forms of instruction.
• I thought training was a good way for new members to learn about the site, though? We told ourselves that for years. Theoretically, it's true. In some theoretical perfect training environment on the site, it makes sense that it's a good way for people to build RP relationships, learn about the factions, learn about the site, and more. In practice, it's just a barrier to entry. We want to remove that barrier. The best way to learn about the site and to get involved in the timeline is to dive right in. By allowing people to get actively involved right away, we think we'll avoid a lot of the dropoff that we see where members register, sign up for a faction, and then disappear.
• Why start people off at the Jedi Knight level? It immediately makes you part of the core of the faction. Whether it's Jedi Knight or its Sith equivalent, that's the main rank of a main faction, so starting off with it means you can immediately be part of the action and be part of the core group of the faction. You've earned it just by virtue of joining the faction.
• Does this mean I can't be a Padawan? You can be a Padawan (or its equivalent in other factions) if you want, but it won't be a formal rank in the factions. Because training also won't be a formal part of the factions, if you want to go through training with a master then it will be your responsibility to find that master to work with you. Every faction will have its own dedicated OOC board, of course, so you can always ask there if anyone is interested in being your character's master.
• Can I start off as a higher rank than Jedi Knight? This is another interesting thing we're doing with ranks at the start of this timeline: except for Faction Leaders and Assistant Faction Leaders, no one will have a rank higher than the Jedi Knight level when the timeline begins. That makes everyone part of the core group, and it means that no one gets a higher rank without earning it first.

That last part is related to another important point about starting everyone off at the Knight level too. Training was only required for people who hadn't gone through it before. So if you'd been through training on the site, even if it was years ago, you could have automatically started off as a Jedi Knight, while new members had to start at the bottom. That's not entirely unreasonable, but at the same time, without that context or understanding, it could look to new members like they were being penalized for their registration date. Now, between the elimination of training as a requirement and the fact that non-FL/AFLs won't have a rank above the Knight level at the start of the timeline, everyone starts off on equal footing.

Over the next few days, we'll have an announcement about what the ranks actually are. In the meantime, if you have any questions about what was announced here, please feel free to let us know. We're really excited about this change because we think it'll be hugely beneficial to the site, so we hope you like it as well!

Jedi Knights should remain Jedi Knights. If you deviate from this, the familiar concept that is approachable to newbies suddenly becomes distant. The rank of Master can be eliminated; replaced with something like "Knight-Captain" or "Paladin," allowing master to be a term of reverence and respect rather than title, because that was always confusing.

Thus ranks are:
Knight
Knight-Captain, Brother/Sister-Superior, Justicar or other
Chapter Master, (Sithfinder General would be the most awesome, but w/e)

Sith have no such equivalent. However, "Assassin" matches the Crusade theme, and was used in canon to reference Maul, who was trained before Sidious killed his master Plagueis. Sith 'Knights' should universally be "Sith Assassins," modelled after the Seljuk Assassins who fought the Christian Crusaders. Sith Lords should be their direct superior. FL should ideally be the Dark Lord of the Sith, and the AFL would be his direct apprentice and nominal successor. This eliminates the artificial rareness of the term "Darth," which thus apply to anyone achieving a rank above Assassin - which is still difficult and not a gimme, but it's not as rare as the current timeline. The exclusiveness of the title 'Darth' meant very few new players who start off so ambitious ever managed to actually achieve that, and their frustration at the impossibility of it all (because, let's face it, it also required OOC politics with the faction elites to get it) meant many would go somewhere else.

Thus ranks are:
Sith Assassin
Sith Lord
Dark Lord of the Sith

As for the changes to rank, here's a FAQ @Brandon Rhea:
"If I choose to start at at a rank lesser than Knight, am I necessarily handicapping myself in PVP and thus at an automatic power disadvantage relative to other players that start at the default position?"

I personally feel ALL combat power should be derived from skill (and thus, rank higher than Knight likewise derived from skill); we've seen Padawans kill Darths in canon (Obi-Wan v Maul) and Knights kill Darths, etc. I see no reason power should continue to be implied in rank rather than the quality of RP.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Names notwithstanding, the three rank structure you just outlined is basically what we're doing. We'll have an announcement about that soon.

And as we've said in other threads too, yes, we want to detach rank and skill from one another. Rank can be a reflection of skill, but we don't want it to be in a video game way where "leveling up" means you're more powerful.

 

[Tsunami]

I really, really like this idea. I think its also going to get new people (like me) a bit more involved from the get go, without fear that they could be judged on their writing abilities or knowledge of the site!

I do have a couple of questions however:

1. Will there also be a post denoting the usage of force powers by Knights and the Sith equivalent. As I have heard through the grapevine that there is going to be a large revamp on Force Powers, as well as there useage.
2. Will there be spots opening up to more responsible roles within your chosen faction aside from the standard AFL and FL roles?

Thank you again guys! hopefully more exciting updates to come! :D

 

[Saul]

I really, really like this idea. I think its also going to get new people (like me) a bit more involved from the get go, without fear that they could be judged on their writing abilities or knowledge of the site!

I do have a couple of questions however:

1. Will there also be a post denoting the usage of force powers by Knights and the Sith equivalent. As I have heard through the grapevine that there is going to be a large revamp on Force Powers, as well as there useage.
2. Will there be spots opening up to more responsible roles within your chosen faction aside from the standard AFL and FL roles?

Thank you again guys! hopefully more exciting updates to come! :D

I want to be the Sith Master of Ceremonies. Call me MC Vengea, yo.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

10/10 training sucks

 

[Tsunami]

I want to be the Sith Master of Ceremonies. Call me MC Vengea, yo.

Every victory needs an after party. You sir, are hired!

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Will there also be a post denoting the usage of force powers by Knights and the Sith equivalent. As I have heard through the grapevine that there is going to be a large revamp on Force Powers, as well as there useage.

Our thinking right now, in addition to having the usual list of Force powers, is to have a guide for how to properly use the Force. That way, the standard is as well-documented as it can be. If people feel like other members are applying the Force in an incorrect way, that guide will be there for them to point to.

Will there be spots opening up to more responsible roles within your chosen faction aside from the standard AFL and FL roles?

The highest ranking non-FL/AFL rank will open up to more people, yeah. We just want people to have to earn it, rather than some people being handed a fancy rank right off the bat. Obviously that's not completely avoidable since there does need to be FLs and AFLs, but that's why we're limiting the high rank to just that for the beginning.

 

[Tsunami]

Our thinking right now, in addition to having the usual list of Force powers, is to have a guide for how to properly use the Force. That way, the standard is as well-documented as it can be. If people feel like other members are applying the Force in an incorrect way, that guide will be there for them to point to.

That would be awesome, especially for new guys like me who will might not know what the status quo is with regards to force use.

What of the limitations? I've seen characters from the last timeline with reams and reams of force powers. Is that going to be something that will be reeled in somewhat? While I can't see it being a big deal in a normal situation. However in a PvP situation, could become kind of tricky to fight against someone who has an answer for every eventuality that they can summon at their whim.

In my head; call me crazy, I though a nice idea (Now that we saw Ray from the force awakens effectively reverse engineer the force to use it against Kylo Ren) That all characters have the ability to use ALL the regular force powers (Excluding those that require insane requirements and sticking to the alignments required, no one needs a Jedi casting spear of midnight black.) however in a situation such as PvP, before the fight begins there is a sort of picks and bans phase? Then no one is going to have to deal with everything, it will be on a level playing field because everyone would have gone through the same process.

The reason I say this is because even though I will generally be playing a Warrior style character, who prefers a Lightsaber over the force. It is more than likely, that a writer may have a better writing ability that me but also be a sorcerer style character, who has a large amount of abilities as well has superior blade work through writing. I don't know if I have managed to get my point across its sometimes hard to put whats in my head on the page. I'm just trying to put a suggestion down that has balance in mind.

 

[Saul]

Please restrict Force powers to canon only and eliminate all legends stuff. Spear of midnight black, force light, none of it is good.

 

[Logan]

Please restrict Force powers to canon only and eliminate all legends stuff. Spear of midnight black, force light, none of it is good.

I disagree. Why impose arbitrary limitations on ourselves?

 

[Saul]

Because this is star wars not D&D