Faction Training and Ranks

[Saul]

I've always headcanoned that lightning is a manifestation of pure dark side energy, since it doesn't really behave at all like real lightning. That said though, I'm open to characters manifesting the Force as flames or whatever if they want to - I've always advocated for creative usage of the Force, and I think it applies here as well. Does it stylistically fit in with what is strictly canon? Probably not, but at the same time if we were canon purists we'd have push, lightsaber throw, jump, speed and lightning, which is...incredibly limiting for our players.

What I find interesting, though, is that powers like Spear of Midnight Black keep seeming to be thrown around as examples of cheapness and a reason why the Force should be nerfed. I don't disagree that that power is a bit odd, but...Spear of Midnight Black seems to have this stigma of OPness about it when all you're doing is basically throwing a javelin at someone. There's also no mention of it being impervious to being blocked, deflected or anything like that either, so I don't know why people use that particular power as an example when it's really quite basic compared to some of the other, truly ridiculous things that Legends has come up with over the years.

The way I've often seen it described is as an invisible, undetectable spear. Which is OP. Admittedly, this was in the distant past in threads not likely transferred to the new boards, but oh well. As long as there is no push to win ability I'm fine. Force Light, Shatterpoint, there are a few really bs ones out there. Stylistically, I'd like to avoid burning things, or spewing out waves of icicles or rainbows from my fingers, because I want everyone to have a relatively equal understanding of what the Force is and not have to walk into a battle prepared to dethaw their sword arm or put out the fire that's raging on their clothes or other "oh shit, you can do that?" stuff. I get let people do what they want, but I also see tit for tat trying to push it to the limits out of spite when peoples characters die to this kind of stuff, which ideally more characters will be dying this timeline.

 

[Green Ranger]

Also keep in mind that if there's something you're unsure about or a dispute with the way a power is used or anything, then...I mean, that's what admins are for. But that aside, you'll always have the options to contact the other member involved, or if you're in a faction to ask a more senior member for advice as well. Correct and successful use of the Force is so reliant on how a post is phrased that there are almost always loopholes you can exploit - and if you can't see what that is, then there's nothing wrong with asking someone for advice. A second set of eyes can really help.

 

[Tsunami]

@Saul

Kind of want a character to start rocking Force Rainbow if I'm honest.
On topic though I too was under the impression spear of midnight black was a invisible death javelin.

 

[Green Ranger]

On topic though I too was under the impression spear of midnight black was a invisible death javelin.

Honestly if someone had asked me if that was the case I'd have said lolno. Granted it probably should be on the disallowed list as an altered power to specifically say it's visible and blockable, but if it had come up in a ruling then I'd have outlined that it was visible and blockable on grounds of fairness anyway.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

• Does this mean I can't be a Padawan? You can be a Padawan (or its equivalent in other factions) if you want, but it won't be a formal rank in the factions. Because training also won't be a formal part of the factions, if you want to go through training with a master then it will be your responsibility to find that master to work with you. Every faction will have its own dedicated OOC board, of course, so you can always ask there if anyone is interested in being your character's master

Doesn't this point kind of defeat the purpose of this entire announcement? I see that it will no longer be an official rank, but those that want to make padawans are still going to train as they had planned before this. They may still be involved in the timeline, but I feel that this addition limits the major increase in timeline involvement you're seeking with this announcement. As it was previously most members had to seek a master on their own, so adding that doesn't seem to change much.

 

[Kenico]

Not going to lie, love the way the ranks are looking out and see all the concepts of the Force Valid arguments and Ideas. But honest, why not follow two rules when it comes to remodeling the force?

Go back to Basics...and KISS

 

[Tsunami]

Not going to lie, love the way the ranks are looking out and see all the concepts of the Force Valid arguments and Ideas. But honest, why not follow two rules when it comes to remodeling the force?

Go back to Basics...and KISS

Is Kiss as in Kiss? or an abbreviation of something I'm too new here to understand... if its kiss and in kiss, I'm going to need some chap stick because its cold here in England.

 

[Haro]

Is Kiss as in Kiss? or an abbreviation of something I'm too new here to understand... if its kiss and in kiss, I'm going to need some chap stick because its cold here in England.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

[Tsunami]

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

*Slowly puts away chap stick*

Just testing... Just testing.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Doesn't this point kind of defeat the purpose of this entire announcement? I see that it will no longer be an official rank, but those that want to make padawans are still going to train as they had planned before this. They may still be involved in the timeline, but I feel that this addition limits the major increase in timeline involvement you're seeking with this announcement. As it was previously most members had to seek a master on their own, so adding that doesn't seem to change much.

We want to increase that timeline involvement, but we can't do it in a way that becomes restrictive to people if they really want to play a Padawan. If that's what they want to do, is it our place to stop them? In my opinion, no. We're removing the requirement, but not the choice. Most people will choose to start as Jedi Knights.

 

[Aurek]

Just to confirm, does 'starting out at a Jedi knight level' mean in terms of position or experience.. or both? I'm asking because I intend to join with the Border Alliance and am not sure how this new system would play into a military structured faction.

 

[Korvo]

Just to confirm, does 'starting out at a Jedi knight level' mean in terms of position or experience.. or both? I'm asking because I intend to join with the Border Alliance and am not sure how this new system would play into a military structured faction.

I'm 99.9% positive it doesn't. You can already start out as a normal foot soldier and get in the action in the non-FS factions. You can even do that in the current timeline. To compare, the Padawan restriction for the Jedi Knights would be like joining the Republic military (border alliance), but you have to start out in boot camp. Those conditions, to my knowledge, don't exist for militarized factions, and thus, non-FS factions are unaffected by this.

Just my assumption, I could be totally wrong

 

[Marcus]

My assumption is that you can start as a padawan/private/peon/etc and train, but by faction design you will still be entitled to participate in and help shape the story like the other Knights/sergeants/non-peons.

 

[Green Ranger]

Think of it this way - rather than starting out as a raw recruit or a new student, we're allowing you to start as an established character who is already making a name for themselves.

 

[Pureblood-Sin]

I always did loathe training. This change has my full endorsement.

As far as Force powers and whatnot goes, please tell me all of that useless Sith Alchemy/Magic stuff is being canned.

As much as I love Sith Magic and Alchemy, I concur that there is a lot of chaff that needs extracting. I myself would keep to the more fleshed-out powers that aren't completely insane...and perhaps enforce a ritual component with very advanced spells. Something short, but enough to make the user think "is it really worth it?"

 

[CJ Solo]

This discussion has been an interesting read.

Personally, I liked the training thing that was in this timeline though I think it could've been executed a lot better and in a way that didn't scream grinding through posting. I'm not going to lie that I'm glad to see that not 100% of the site is just out to see how high they can get up the ladder with the least amount of work. I understand, though, removing it if faction leaders or however in a faction responsible for overseeing that aspect of things is going to be wholely hands off about it.

My concern, I guess, is with the emphasis on PvP which is inherently competitive and the degree of free formness. A large portion of PvP junkies, in my experience with PvP in games, like PvP for the pleasure of just stomping the other person as horribly as they possibly can. A lot of those types are capable of being intelligent enough to be clever in finding loopholes and twisting what is written by the other person. I like the narrative part of what this idea gets to because it's the storytelling I care about, not a kill count to get my jollies off, so to speak. Is there going to be an obvious line set out where it's like... yeah, no that's not a thing. Sure you can just report to an admin, but well for those PvPers that like to report every single post to an admin because they don't like the outcome is annoying and slows the thread down.. in itself being a tactic to force a thread to timeout and therefore possibly force an admin decision in their favor.

I can handle character death, but I'd really hate to have my character die because of persistant escalation of power gaming and the douchebaggery that comes out of those types of players.

 

[Kiro]

My thoughts on most of this: Approve 100%.

I also like the idea of a Dummies Guide On How To Use The Force. Just a shame Adena stepped down from the Admin job, as she, more than anyone else on the Site that I've experienced, had the best grasp on what and how The Force worked. She would have been perfect for the job.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Just to confirm, does 'starting out at a Jedi knight level' mean in terms of position or experience.. or both? I'm asking because I intend to join with the Border Alliance and am not sure how this new system would play into a military structured faction.

Position, which naturally brings with it some experience, but when crafting a new character their level of experience is entirely up to you.

The Border Alliance will also have the three rank structure referenced earlier in the thread, with no formal recruit rank, so the starting rank in the Border Alliance would be considered "Knight-equivalent."

My concern, I guess, is with the emphasis on PvP which is inherently competitive and the degree of free formness. A large portion of PvP junkies, in my experience with PvP in games, like PvP for the pleasure of just stomping the other person as horribly as they possibly can. A lot of those types are capable of being intelligent enough to be clever in finding loopholes and twisting what is written by the other person. I like the narrative part of what this idea gets to because it's the storytelling I care about, not a kill count to get my jollies off, so to speak. Is there going to be an obvious line set out where it's like... yeah, no that's not a thing. Sure you can just report to an admin, but well for those PvPers that like to report every single post to an admin because they don't like the outcome is annoying and slows the thread down.. in itself being a tactic to force a thread to timeout and therefore possibly force an admin decision in their favor.

I think the concern is valid but a bit overhyped. Most people here don't do that type of PVP.

That said, I'm not sure what you mean by "Is there going to be an obvious line set out where it's like... yeah, no that's not a thing." Can you clarify that?

 

[Kenico]

@Tsunami, Keep it simple silly lol...no chapstic required. but yeah stick to basics and keep the Force as simple as possible. Pull that off and we may have a stable footing in my opinion, though on the other hand the Admins and TT may have something better cooking up lol...

as for the whole PVP deal, its a rather unique debate as in there has to be a balance of the characters skills and the writers creativity. My opinion on the matter? Make it a mini writing contest of sorts, best writer wins :p but yeah all joking aside (seeing there is a boat load of problems with that idea including but not limited to a writer's skill lol) It is a tough one to crack at lol

 

[Green Ranger]

My thoughts on most of this: Approve 100%.

I also like the idea of a Dummies Guide On How To Use The Force. Just a shame Adena stepped down from the Admin job, as she, more than anyone else on the Site that I've experienced, had the best grasp on what and how The Force worked. She would have been perfect for the job.

Well, I know that me and Adena basically see eye to eye on the Force to an astonishing degree, and she's made a massive impact on the way the site views and handles the Force, so that's not all going to dissipate anytime soon. It's safe to say that her philosophies and approach to the Force will definately carry on into the Think Tank and beyond, because for a lot of us it's second nature to reference thing's she's said or written up in the past and generally approach the Force in the same way she's more or less taught us to. :p