OOC Attack on Anoth: The Temple Landing Platforms Discussion

[Defiance]

This thread is designated for discussion out-of-character for the main thread, Attack on Anoth: The Temple Landing Platforms, chronicling the battle between Sith Lord, Avlis Dioddai (as written by me), and Jedi Knight, Orlaan Ghess (as written by Ben).

The primary reason I bring this OOC thread into place is to properly, also speedily, discuss and resolve matters that have arisen. In this way, I can debate with Ben in public, rather than private, to help both shed light on any issues that we or the thread mechanics may have. I mean no ill-will, and I assume that Ben, too, feels the same. The following is addressed to Ben:



I have a couple qualms with your last post, Ben. It isn't in delivery, but content. I've largely considered this, and it still bugs me. Correct me if I'm wrong, I will begin to state facts as I know them.

To recap your third post, Orlaan sends a telekinetic push of equal force to the telekinetic blast of mine, seemingly negating the effect, and allowing him to bring himself back to the ground. At such point, you dodge my attack, a ball of lightning, and you enter a Force-empowered somersault to close the distance between us and then add momentum as well as strength to your next lightsaber assault.

My reaction was simple, and somewhat quaint: I ignited my second lightsaber, and quickly stepped forward as you rolled towards me, bending down to lower my height. Then as you came towards me I would slash with the lightsabers, intending to hit you mid-roll.

Your fourth post, as I understand it, has Orlaan anticipating my attack mid-roll, and sending a powerful Force repulse. Following which, Orlaan explosively sprawls to standing position, or walking thereof, into or right in front of Avlis, relative to my reaction.

Assuming everything stated prior is accurate, my voice of reason believes that Orlaan's counter was unreasonable. Sensing (due to not being able to see) and reacting to Avlis' slash while executing an empowered (or even not empowered) somersault is a little farfetched, but equally skeptical is being able to simultaneously send a Force Repulse that throws objects at a speed and force capable of, as I quote, "to shatter bones". If I have misinterpreted, I would like to be enlightened. If I have not, if you could kindly revise Orlaan's course of action, it would be much appreciated.

 

[Ben]

Hey, as per my PM, sorry for the delay in replying here!

Well, I am more than happy to edit - I was being a little melodramatic when I was writing that - the power level of the repulse. I am not as OK with editing the action itself though; it just doesn't seem unreasonable for a Jedi Master to be able to do that at all to me.

 

[Defiance]

Could you defend your case on why it would be reasonable?

The way I see it: bone-shattering or not, executing a Force repulse during an empowered somersault is unrealistic. Not only are you focusing force towards your limbs, which in turn is focused on rolling, but it requires focus enough to send a telekinetic blast towards me while you're doing these things. Even for a Jedi Master, all these things just can't be done simultaneously.

To add, you're also rolling your entire body. If you've ever tried a somersault, during the roll you feel disoriented. It's a natural part of your body, your inner ear reacts in kind to try and maintain balance. This is often why, when we roll, we can't suddenly change directions or take 90 degree turns easily. For the same reason it would be monumentally hard to send a focused blast of kinetic energy towards me. Even still, when a Force sensitive typically sends a Force push, they extend a limb or body part to help focus the blast. But mid-roll, at a high speed, extending a limb from your balled up form would cause you to sprawl out onto the floor, potentially hurting you.

All of this in mind, I simply cannot be led to believe that you were able to see my attack coming. Since you were unable to visually see it, the only explanation would either be precognition or Force Sense.

But! This is all happening in a couple seconds, considering the speeds at which you described. Since Avlis' counter was at the last moment, the split second where you may have "seen" my attack would not nearly give you enough time to muster a Force push.

 

[Toska]

Hello. Third-party here. I know we shy away from third-party involvement in PvP disputes, but hopefully that doesn't damage the validity of my concerns. :p

@Ben: The way you've written this past round of posts comes across as your character noticing Avlis's attack in the midst of a roll and reacting. Defiance covered the roll (which initially jumped out at me), so I'll just mention this:

Interruptions in PvP go from a certain point in the continuity. All actions before the interrupt are considered valid, and the interrupted party reacts once those actions are interrupted. You can't retroactively interrupt an interrupt. By changing the outcome of an ongoing action before the action reaches that conclusion you are resetting both of your posts to an earlier point in time. With that, how do we determine what happens when conclusively? If you can detect Avlis's attack in the middle of your roll, Avlis can detect your repulse in the midst of his attack and counter with a repulse of his own (or tutaminis if you want to go there). Where does that cycle end?

 

[Ben]

Hey, I will look at both your replies when I get back home from work and put a response up/edit my post as necessary.

Just to let you know though Defiance - and this is just my opinion - from what we've seen in PM's more than the thread itself, I am beginning to detect a bit of a double-standard going on here. I will elaborate on what I mean tonight; just something to think about.

 

[Ben]

Just a note, I am not using a focused Force Push as you're stating in your post up there; it is a Force Repulse. If memory serves, that is an unspecific, none-focused, all directional push: not something I would need to extend an arm for.

 

[Defiance]

Ah, I see. Thanks for that clarification.

 

[GABA]

What's the hold up in this one?

 

[Defiance]

Waiting for Ben to defend his case.

While he refuted one of my points, the rest of the argument still stands. We may require an admin to make the decision, as neither of our opinions are fazed.

 

[Ben]

I apologise; I'm not usually this much of a pain in the backside to deal with. I just have some RL goings-on at the minute, I will leave it at that. I will get to this as soon as possible.

 

[Ben]

Hey again, sorry for the slow posting here; really not my time atm. Well, in lieu of making a massive post, I will just try and breeze through as much as quickly as possible.

The roll is quick, not a slow jump or some cumbersome motion. It is a single roll, short and precise, so to take 3 steps forward and swing seems a little quick to me. Even so, however, it's kind of you setting the pace for how my character moves, which isn't how things should work within reason.

(Like I said, just gonna keep the posts short until we find a point we can work on)

 

[Defiance]

I meant to take the steps as you entered the roll, and while the writing may betray a larger space of time, that was not my intention. My pace, too, is largely irrelevant as long as it is sequentially correct.

But, I recall that you posted a reply without voicing these concerns. Posting a reply countering my attack implies that you've actually accepted the attack. So, it's a moot point.

Nitpicking my previous post doesn't justify your own.

 

[Ben]

In work so I don't have time to reply at the minute sorry. I've been letting things go throughout your posts actually, but you're right, they're now moot as I let them go. I will ensure not to from here on out in this particular case.

I will say stop being so bloody passive aggressive though. It's starting to get a bit too funny.

 

[Defiance]

Haha, honestly, I just wanted to prevent you from getting pissed off.

 

[Ben]

I dunno, even when you have been polite it's been pretty condescending. Just makes that much harder to deal with and I don't see the point or reason.

 

[Defiance]

Well, I apologize if those are the vibes I'm sending. It hasn't been my intention.

I just want to present my argument and defend my opinion.

 

[Ben]

Right, OK. Maybe it's just me. Like I said, not great working conditions at the minute.

 

[Rom]

Alright guys, so the most important thing here is objectively looking at what's going on in the thread and coming to a decision about feasibility. If you are unable to come to an agreement, work schedule aside, it's time to request an admin review on the move in question.

On one hand if Ben's intention was a Force Repulse it could be argued that since it's an unfocused attack and is really just a release of force energy in all directions, then there is a good chance of having gotten the repulse off in a time enough to at the very least knock back Avlis' saber arm and prevent a killing strike as he comes up out of the roll. Not to say that a glancing blow or stab isnt likely considering the distance avlis moved and the reach of a lightsaber, but that a deep disabling strike could be avoided.

On the other, the issue comes into the timing; Ben's Master is throwing himself forward in a roll, there are at least a few seconds there where even at force speed movements you're going to visually lose track of Avlis, which allows him his step stab. You also have to complete the motion of the roll as he is aiming to attack you mid roll; there's no logical way you can unspring from a forward roll when your shoulder is in the ground and your ass heading up into the air without probably breaking your neck.

If any compromise could be made while keeping to the action of the attacks it would probably have to be altering the direction of your roll by shifting your weight and veering off to the side; admittedly you would still get hit but again you could probably avoid a disabling/killing strike.

That's my thoughts anyway, take it as you will. I do recommend though that if you havent reached a consensus by the end of the day to just ask for an admin review of the response/counter and see what they say.

 

[Ben]

Hey thanks very much for the input Rom. For the sake of getting things moving after my sucky speeds - and cause it makes sense - I am happy to take a glancing blow and get the repulse off in the nick of time if you are, Defiance.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

To avoid waiting the rest of the day - I agree with Rom.