Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Kaeb]

The writers do understand it. They understand it in the sense that they're following what's been established, the parameters of the franchise. What you're looking for, I think, is people who would want to change the understanding of the franchise.

No, I think it's both actually.

A tonne of writers allowed to create in a universe while disregarding the established tone, look, methodology and ethos of that franchise and writers who alter those things inherent to that franchise.

Two very basic comparisons I'd make, in terms of disregarding what's come before or altering to the point that it loses it's interesting aspects and becomes bad, are this:

To this:

Or this:

To this:

 

[Clayton]

No, I think it's both actually.

A tonne of writers allowed to create in a universe while disregarding the established tone, look, methodology and ethos of that franchise and writers who alter those things inherent to that franchise.

Two very basic comparisons I'd make, in terms of disregarding what's come before or altering to the point that it loses it's interesting aspects and becomes bad, are this:

To this:

Or this:

To this:

It's almost like different cultures/the military have different design aesthetics.

 

[Joy Carleec]

Rebels didn't have the funding that the Clones did.
Old person vs cripple in an era where choreography onscreen was pretty difficult? Not to mention they had to do those lightsaber effects by hand. So no waving too fast!

 

[Kaeb]

You can have different aesthetics inherent to cultures, but when it completely deviates from the established grit of the franchise that comes before it, it becomes something else entirely that's barely recognizable as part of that franchise. There's a reason Battlestar Galactica doesn't look like Flash Gordon. Or why Batman and Robin doesn't look like The Dark Knight. It's basic storytelling presentation.

Like, compare the 50's style diner filled with CG aliens and robots on Coruscant:

To the gritty, dingy, dank, rust and muck tone of the Mos Eisley cantina:

This is just the aesthetic aspect of what we're discussing with creative teams disregarding the work of other creative things within an established work, but it makes them look like they're part of completely different franchises.

 

[Kaeb]

Rebels didn't have the funding that the Clones did.
Old person vs cripple in an era where choreography onscreen was pretty difficult? Not to mention they had to do those lightsaber effects by hand. So no waving too fast!

Limitations of technology is not an excuse, Empire still looks better than most films today within it's established framework but that's not the point I was making. The point I was making in basic terms, was we went from a fight scene not even meant to be a fight scene but the fight being a method of communicating between characters, which is why within the context of the story (beyond the technical reasons for it) is slow, methodical and emotional, to a CG lizard in a robot suit flaying around sixteen lightsabers in front of Obi Wan's face after he jumped around on a giant green spider lizard into a crowd of a million comic relief CG robots.

I'm talking about mood and tone, essentially.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Put succinctly: Kaeb's talking about the out of universe differences. There are plenty of in-universe reasons we can come up with for why the PT looks different from the OT, and how the PT has largely influenced the rest of the franchise from 1999 onward, but the in-universe reasons don't change the fact that Lucas altered the tone and look of the franchise in ways that essentially make the PT and the OT look like two entirely separate franchises. The Clone Wars and Rebels have largely helped bridge those gaps in very important ways, but for most people, who just watch the films, the visual differences are stark.

 

[Kaeb]

Even Cloud City had grit to it. Even the ships of the Rebellion had realism to them.

And again, this is just the aesthetics, if we're talking about concepts (which is what I actually wanted to talk about, because we've had this discussion hundreds of times) then that's an entirely different conversation.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Even Cloud City had grit to it. Even the ships of the Rebellion had realism to them.

And again, this is just the aesthetics, if we're talking about concepts (which is what I actually wanted to talk about, because we've had this discussion hundreds of times) then that's an entirely different conversation.

What kinds of concepts do you want to discuss?

 

[Clayton]

You can have different aesthetics inherent to cultures, but when it completely deviates from the established grit of the franchise that comes before it, it becomes something else entirely that's barely recognizable as part of that franchise. There's a reason Battlestar Galactica doesn't look like Flash Gordon. Or why Batman and Robin doesn't look like The Dark Knight. It's basic storytelling presentation.

Like, compare the 50's style diner filled with CG aliens and robots on Coruscant:


To the gritty, dingy, dank, rust and muck tone of the Mos Eisley cantina:



This is just the aesthetic aspect of what we're discussing with creative teams disregarding the work of other creative things within an established work, but it makes them look like they're part of completely different franchises.

Or it's the fact that the two trilogies take place in different time periods and are telling different stories. It's why Caprica didn't have a ship that was falling apart with only 47,000 survivors.

 

[Kaeb]

Or it's the fact that the two trilogies take place in different time periods and are telling different stories. It's why Caprica didn't have a ship that was falling apart with only 47,000 survivors.

Yeah, because 30 years changes the look of an entire galaxy, spare me the excuses mate, they're not legitimate. As Bac and I have said, denying this is denying reality, the change was made and it's all in the imagery.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Or it's the fact that the two trilogies take place in different time periods and are telling different stories. It's why Caprica didn't have a ship that was falling apart with only 47,000 survivors.

Caprica still clearly existed in that world, and had a style that, while unique to the show, was overall consistent with what we had seen in Battlestar Galactica. Because the design of Caprica (the colony) and the other colonies were seen in Battlestar Galactica, and Ron Moore and co. respected the established design and tone of their franchise.

EDIT: And Kaeb will disagree with this, but I largely think this is a problem of Episode II and Episode III. I don't have much issue with the design of Episode I, which I think is mostly consistent with the OT. Episode I is where you can really make the argument that we're just seeing different corners of the galaxy in a different era. Episode II and Episode III just became absurd, in a lot of ways.

 

[Kaeb]

Caprica still clearly existed in that world, and had a style that, while unique to the show, was overall consistent with what we had seen in Battlestar Galactica. Because the design of Caprica (the colony) and the other colonies were seen in Battlestar Galactica, and Ron Moore and co. respected the established design and tone of their franchise.

Yup, they even managed to do this with the initial reimagined series with respect to the completely original series, by including original Cylon designs that made sense within the newly established universe.

And Bac, I guess what got this discussion going was us talking about the black and white establishment of Jedi vs Sith.

EDIT: And Kaeb will disagree with this, but I largely think this is a problem of Episode II and Episode III. I don't have much issue with the design of Episode I, which I think is mostly consistent with the OT. Episode I is where you can really make the argument that we're just seeing different corners of the galaxy in a different era. Episode II and Episode III just became absurd, in a lot of ways.

I hated the design of Naboo, especially the room the last fight happens in, the look of the Naboo ships, the droids, the gungans and Darth Maul and a lot of the use of CG and alien/creature aesthetic choices were very inconsistent but other than thoooooose and what they did to the Jedi?

Yeah sure.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Caprica should've had Capricans wearing togas.

JUST SAYIN'

 

[Kaeb]

The Hobbit trilogy did this a lot too, but not nearly as bad in terms of the actual design, the problem with Hobbit was it's horrible reliance on CG and green screen which made everything look ****ing terrible and barely like The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The Hobbit trilogy did this a lot too, but not nearly as bad in terms of the actual design, the problem with Hobbit was it's horrible reliance on CG and green screen which made everything look ****ing terrible and barely like The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

The thing with The Hobbit, and this is where I also give Episode I credit too (though we disagree on that), is that it still largely felt like it's part of that world. The CG in The Hobbit was awful, it was over the top, and the trilogy was overall absurd and boring, but the visual continuity between the two trilogies was there. It felt like a Middle Earth trilogy. It was just a bad Middle Earth trilogy.

 

[Kaeb]

For me, it skirted the edge, it felt more like a fan attempt to create a story in that world with terrible CG effects, with brief moments of something interesting but most of it terrible.

 

[Miz]

How do you feel about the art style of the game? I really like the Sith designs such as these.

Plus, you're going to hate the Jedi Sage armor.

Spoiler: spoiler

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I like how the old republic eras seem to have a more out there sort of aesthetic, really embracing the "science fantasy" aspects by going in a more high fantasy direction.

Also all the armors look better imo. Like, all of them. Even the bounty hunters and republic troopers.

 

[Kaeb]

Interestingly enough, I hate the art direction of the game, but there's brief glimpses of Star Wars in there so I keep playing.

Some random guy at level cap just guided me to a datacron in The Works on Coruscant, so I now have a Yellow Matrix shard in my inventory. We were in a group at the time so when I picked it up I got 800 xp...I wonder if I would've gotten more if we're weren't in a group.

 

[Kaeb]

For some reason my game keeps completely crashing as I'm approaching the Jedi Temple in a taxi on Coruscant...like the game literally just shuts down completely and I'm stuck in transit every time I log in with that character.