Arrow: Season 3

[Kaeb]

I think the series had an excellent template for an engaging show in it's inception, but the first season is just a slow burn of bad until they finally started to figure out just what the **** they wanted to do, by the end of season two it actually feels like they started to take that direction.

Don't get me wrong, there are still painful bouts of bad (they need better dialogue writers), but there's obviously a reason I'm still curious about each new episode and ultimately I think it's because it finally feels like they're building a world for the audience to inhabit, when before it seemed like all they wanted to do was make Nolan's Green Arrow but with more pretty boy toplessness.

World building saved this show. Crafting a Mythos saved this show. And so did finally threading story elements together.

 

[Ser Gregor]

It's for that reason why I actually disagree with what you said earlier, Brent, about how Tommy turns into a douchebag very suddenly. Tommy was the one who had moral clarity, in that he recognized Oliver was a killer. Oliver spent so much time justifying his methods, but Tommy didn't care about the justification. He didn't think that good intentions meant it was OK to kill. So he rightly called Oliver out on his shit. Sure, there was some soap opera drama in there with Laurel, but his anger towards Oliver stemmed from being lied to and learning that his best friend was a killer.

The series ultimately showed that Tommy was right, and that his feelings were not misplaced.

I see where you're coming from, but at the same time I feel like Tommy was too quick to react to the revelation Oliver was the Hood. Tommy and Oliver were best friends since childhood, and I just feel like he gave up on Oliver far too quickly. He wasn't given a chance, really. Tommy found out Oliver was the Hood and that's it.

That being said the gradual transformation from violent vigilante to true hero was very well done throughout the two seasons, I found. Also enjoyed the Tommy appearance from Episode 2.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I think Tommy’s reaction was pretty normal. He got his best friend back after he was believed dead for five years (and we know now that Tommy even tried to look for him during those five years), and then Oliver comes back and immediately starts killing people and lying to Tommy. He lied to Tommy about it beginning in the pilot after the armed gunmen came after them. So I think Tommy’s reaction was perfectly normal considering that Oliver had killed, what, 20 or so people at that point? Keeping it a secret didn’t help either. If Oliver had let Tommy in on it from the beginning, instead of lying to him, then Tommy might’ve understood what Oliver was doing rather than thinking that Oliver was hiding the fact he was a killer.

Even then, it was obvious that Tommy was a bit conflicted. He was angry at being lied to, really put off by the killing, and then to top it all off, it basically ruined Tommy’s relationship with Laurel. So there’s a lot of justified animosity there. I'm just glad they made amends in the end.

As for Tommy's appearance in 3x02, it's always cool to see Colin Donnell back, but I thought he was mostly wasted. That particular flashback didn't really accomplish that much. The idea is that Amanda Waller is horrible, but it could've been executed better.

 

[Liam]

I felt so bad for Tommy when Oliver told him that his friend was dead. His reaction was just so heartwrenching.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

It certainly paints Tommy's line where he said "I wish you'd died on that island" in a new light, now that we know that Tommy actually looked for Oliver.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Another thing I think this show is good at, since it's relevant, is major character deaths. They've always been very impactful and haven't just been something done for shock value. Each death has its purpose, and each one actually lets you feel the emotion of it.

It could just be my comic book background, but I never saw any of the dead characters as impactful. My rule of thumb being if they don't have a large impact on the comics historically or were made for the show they will most likely die. Exception to the rule being Diggle who I actually really enjoy.

As for Tommy's appearance in 3x02, it's always cool to see Colin Donnell back, but I thought he was mostly wasted. That particular flashback didn't really accomplish that much. The idea is that Amanda Waller is horrible, but it could've been executed better.

That and it really lacked tension. Since it doesn't really present any risk as we know Tommy comes out of the situation with no idea Ollie was alive or that of course he is not dead.

The only thing that bothers me about Felicity is the constant technobabble talk. I understand that she's a computer genius, but a lot of times she does near impossible things on her computer that just move the plot along. I get that there really isn't many other ways for Oliver to get info about crimes, but it annoys me when Felicity explains everything that she's doing, mostly because it sounds very made up.

That's pretty endemic of any media when approaching high tech, basically, computer sorcery. Writers see it as if there is a keyboard connected to a monitor then you can basically do anything and everything.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

It could just be my comic book background, but I never saw any of the dead characters as impactful. My rule of thumb being if they don't have a large impact on the comics historically or were made for the show they will most likely die. Exception to the rule being Diggle who I actually really enjoy.

Probably your comic book background, yeah. The only one who I think that assumption could really strongly be made for was Sara. For Moira, there was nothing saying she had to die (in fact, I always assumed that Slade would give Oliver a choice between Laurel and Sara). And for Tommy, so many people assumed he would be the real Merlyn and Oliver's arch enemy, so his death was a surprise.

And I think assuming that "not in the comics = dead" doesn't always hold true, and isn’t always a good assumption to make. In Smallville, for example, Chloe Sullivan was never in the comics, and she lasted the whole series. Writers can and do sometimes keep non-comic characters.

That and it really lacked tension. Since it doesn't really present any risk as we know Tommy comes out of the situation with no idea Ollie was alive or that of course he is not dead.

Indeed.

One way I think it could’ve been interesting is if Tommy and Oliver DID come face to face. That Oliver nearly has his escape, that Tommy learns that he’s alive, but then ARGUS drugs Tommy and wipes his memory of it or something. It doesn’t change the status quo, but there would be more sadness involved, and you’d feel for Oliver more in that situation.

 

[Ser Gregor]

That's pretty endemic of any media when approaching high tech, basically, computer sorcery. Writers see it as if there is a keyboard connected to a monitor then you can basically do anything and everything.

Which is pretty standard fair for superhero comics. Oracle and Cyborg, anyone? "Oh, don't worry Bruce, I've hacked in to Harley's mallet and deactivated the bludgeoning processor. You should be fine."

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Probably your comic book background

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And I think assuming that "not in the comics = dead" doesn't always hold true, and isn’t always a good assumption to make. In Smallville, for example, Chloe Sullivan was never in the comics, and she lasted the whole series. Writers can and do sometimes keep non-comic characters.

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One way I think it could’ve been interesting is if Tommy and Oliver DID come face to face. That Oliver nearly has his escape, that Tommy learns that he’s alive, but then ARGUS drugs Tommy and wipes his memory of it or something. It doesn’t change the status quo, but there would be more sadness involved, and you’d feel for Oliver more in that situation.

Like I said there are exceptions to the rule like Diggle, and Chloe is definitely Smallville's.

Which is pretty standard fair for superhero comics. Oracle and Cyborg, anyone? "Oh, don't worry Bruce, I've hacked in to Harley's mallet and deactivated the bludgeoning processor. You should be fine."

Injustice where they sent a Tweet from Cyborg in outerspace.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Anyone see last night's episode? I liked it. Good forward momentum on a lot of stories, especially Laurel's.

 

[Liam]

I started to get bored with this show, but this episode was surprisingly good. It's gotten me interested again.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

This is an official photo:

Laurel as Black Canary.

 

[Kaeb]

Looks typical.

 

[Liam]

Looks typical.

Seconded. That's exactly what you'd expect from a Black Canary costume. I'm kind of glad that they didn't do any sort of crazy changes to it.

 

[Liam]

Spoiler: ****ing FINALLY

Everyone can officially stop watching the show now.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Per Laurel's Canary costume it has a bit too much leather for my taste and the black lipstick is a bit unnecessary.

 

[Kaeb]

Meh, you could argue Oliver's eye make up isn't all that necessary, it's warpaint mother****er.

Her costume lacks...flair and character, that being said, Green Arrow and Black Canary's costume were ****ing shit to begin with, so I'm not sure what else could have been done.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Meh, you could argue Oliver's eye make up isn't all that necessary, it's warpaint mother****er.

Her costume lacks...flair and character, that being said, Green Arrow and Black Canary's costume were ****ing shit to begin with, so I'm not sure what else could have been done.

Yeah, the face paint was dumb.

I actually like Green Arrow's costume both in the comics and show. Per, Canary in the comics yeah her weird fishnets and biker jacket was lack luster, but that doesn't mean you can't at least try new things with it.

Her New 52 uniform uses more yellows as did her (while not perfect) Smallville uniform and to me that looks a lot better and differentiates her from Sara!Canary while probably bringing her more in line with the green and red of Team Arrow.

 

[Kaeb]

I wonder if they'll give Laurel her power.....

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

That is a good question. They could just recycle how Sara did it.