Faction Training and Ranks

[Green Ranger]

If the Jedi history/archives didn't note a strong Jedi under a respective age I think we should follow a guideline as well.

i mean if that doesn't count, what does?

 

[Rev]

i mean if that doesn't count, what does?

I never said couldnt be Jedi but guidance is everything. An emotional teenage Jedi will no doubt become a Sith without a Master.

EDIT: Funny thing is Ezra needed to utilize the darkside to control the Fyrnock..

 

[Nor'baal]

I'll have you know @Saul that was easily the best thread I've ever been in.

 

[Green Ranger]

@Rev: See, you're re-framing the argument now. When before you said there should be a requisite age for using the Force, now you're saying that only with proper guidance is a Force User going to be able to be able to resist the temptation of the Dark Side, which is a different kettle of fish entirely.

I said this in one of the previous threads, but I can't remember which, and I don't expect you to trawl through the boards looking for it, but the main thrust of the point I made was this: In the new canon, by all accounts, using the Force is actually relatively easy. Look at Ezra. Look at Ahsoka. Look at the Jedi younglings in TCW. Hell, look at Rey in TFA. Actually using the Force comes quite easily to these examples of young or inexperienced people. Even in Legends, the idea of the Force being difficult, requiring intense meditation for years before one could even harness telekinesis, was poorly backed up by actual, practical examples, and more often than not the idea was ignored altogether. The new canon really just takes what most writers have been doing anyway and makes it official.

But what you're right about, is that using the Force responsibly, or with any degree of skill, finesse, or in the case of the Jedi, restraint? That's the big deal in regards to training. That's where having a master really becomes important. But by the same token, that doesn't exclude especially young characters from using the Force either, which was your earlier point. To go to an even earlier point though (that regarding excessively young Jedi Knights/Sith Lords etc), I agree that there needs to be a controlling factor on that, because it skews plausibility of those roles that a 17 year old would be considered to have mastered the Force to the degree of knighthood/lordship etc.

But, as I said before, that's more something that respective FLs are in charge of, and so it's their responsibility to enforce something like that if they so desire.

 

[Kiro]

EDIT: Funny thing is Ezra needed to utilize the darkside to control the Fyrnock..

Only that particular one, and only after he thought his Master had fallen/would fall before the Grand Inquisitor. Before that, he guided an entire swarm of them through a Jedi trance, that he learned with remarkable ease, considering it was only his second attempt at it, and under very difficult circumstances at that.

So yeah, I'll have to stick with Boli on the whole "The Force is easy to use, but to use responsibly is hard". Dark Side is karma, and karma is a bitch.

 

[Saul]

@Rev: See, you're re-framing the argument now. When before you said there should be a requisite age for using the Force, now you're saying that only with proper guidance is a Force User going to be able to be able to resist the temptation of the Dark Side, which is a different kettle of fish entirely.

I said this in one of the previous threads, but I can't remember which, and I don't expect you to trawl through the boards looking for it, but the main thrust of the point I made was this: In the new canon, by all accounts, using the Force is actually relatively easy. Look at Ezra. Look at Ahsoka. Look at the Jedi younglings in TCW. Hell, look at Rey in TFA. Actually using the Force comes quite easily to these examples of young or inexperienced people. Even in Legends, the idea of the Force being difficult, requiring intense meditation for years before one could even harness telekinesis, was poorly backed up by actual, practical examples, and more often than not the idea was ignored altogether. The new canon really just takes what most writers have been doing anyway and makes it official.

But what you're right about, is that using the Force responsibly, or with any degree of skill, finesse, or in the case of the Jedi, restraint? That's the big deal in regards to training. That's where having a master really becomes important. But by the same token, that doesn't exclude especially young characters from using the Force either, which was your earlier point. To go to an even earlier point though (that regarding excessively young Jedi Knights/Sith Lords etc), I agree that there needs to be a controlling factor on that, because it skews plausibility of those roles that a 17 year old would be considered to have mastered the Force to the degree of knighthood/lordship etc.

But, as I said before, that's more something that respective FLs are in charge of, and so it's their responsibility to enforce something like that if they so desire.

I think the point was more about young people being Knights rather than using the Force. A 15 year old hasn't fully developed their frontal lobe yet, can still be psychologically impacted by traumatic events and is easily manipulated. That's backed up by neuroscience. I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that they'd be a Knight when I can't even get laser eye surgery until I'm at least 18 because my eyes are still developing. Now, add in the fact that most young Dark Jedi go murderous - unlike my eyeballs - and you can see why the Jedi might be hesitant to bestow too much expectation and responsibility (aka rank) on a young Jedi.

But like you said, that's more up to the FL's than anything else.

 

[Kiro]

I see it now. Battalions of Jedi child soldiers.

 

[Green Ranger]

I see it now. Battalions of Jedi child soldiers.

I hear veal makes for an excellent meatshield.

 

[Nor'baal]

I say we equip children with Veal Shields, and send them gloriously toward the enemies of the Jedi.

 

[Saul]

May the Force accept them in their martyrdom.

 

[Talon maara]

This will be good for me since im newer here i can grasp it a little better.

 

[Ser Gregor]

Just FYI with the super-young Knights. The new timeline is set in the midst of one of the most destructive and all-consuming wars the Galaxy has seen. The Jedi, during this period, have gone from monkish peacekeepers to full-fledged warriors. Promoting capable teenagers (like... 15+) to the rank of Knight doesn't seem out-of-character for a highly militarized Jedi Order.

Part of the issue that exists with the idea of 'teenage' Jedi Knights is just that; the concept of a 'teenager'. It's a relatively modern, first-world concept that doesn't perfectly 'mesh' with the ancient, long-ago feeling of Star Wars. To tie back to the warrior Jedi, I can easily see how generations of war with the Sith have weeded out the very concept of a 'teenager' from the Order. You're a child, and then you're a man capable of fighting for the cause.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Ahsoka (during the war) was a prime example of someone who was basically a Jedi Knight in everything but actual rank, and even at the end of her time in the Jedi Order, it seemed like the Jedi Council was about to promote her to Jedi Knight even though she was only 16.

 

[Feng]

I don't have a 100% firm answer for that yet, but I think it will be twofold:

• By default, an indie character can also start off as Knight-equivalent. I don't think we'd treat indie characters any differently in that regard.
• Indie factions can set their own rules for whether they want to require training.

That being said, it's not as big of a deal as it used to be because of how we're really trying to separate rank and power levels, so hopefully that will translate through effectively to indie factions as well.

With that last part being said, just to clarify if i understood right. You are saying like a knoghts power level could be higher than lets say his masters? Even though the master is a rank higher than the knight?

 

[Tsunami]

With that last part being said, just to clarify if i understood right. You are saying like a knoghts power level could be higher than lets say his masters? Even though the master is a rank higher than the knight?

I don't want to speak for Brandon, however from what I am to understand about the ranking systems is that they have been changed from being something that denote power, to something that denote the part one has played within their faction.

ICly, a Jedi Master is maybe more powerful than a Jedi Knight, however that difference is now so small that in PvP, there will be no great imbalance.

I hope that answers your question, and if i am incorrect in my understanding of the system then i'm sure i will be corrected!

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Yeah, Tsumani said it well. Basically, don't think of ranks like power levels. Ranks = power in video games, but that's not the case in the actual story of Star Wars. Anakin was the most powerful Jedi ever, for example, but he was only a Jedi Knight.

Power depends on your training and your connectivity to the Force. It doesn't depend on your title.

 

[Feng]

Ok. Just was wondering because compared to the earlier timeline where power was with rank if im not mistaken?

 

[Flamjetxx]

Ok. Just was wondering because compared to the earlier timeline where power was with rank if im not mistaken?

Yeah, I LOVE the whole new direction this is all being taken. The site is taking a very exciting turn into a sort of essence of realism that doesn't play off of the video game mechanics that quite a few people misunderstand the RP to be. I think this will drive the juicier, creative, sides in us all to think more outside the box in developing Force powers from a scientific perspective and appropriately RPing a character that has a life and thoughts rather than a videogame character that is meant to "Level Up" as fast as possible, as Ranks are now essentially fruit fluff! And oh so delicious fruit fluff can be >:-)

 

[Cassanova]

I agree with Flamjetxx, but let's all just remember that you've still gotta justify abilities that your characters have earned. Nothing trumps role-playing out character and skill growth.

Super important.