Man cuts tracking bracelet then rapes child and murders mother in NY

[©razy Man]

And this is why I stay out of topics like this xD

 

[Denzein]

I agree with this guy. Sometimes imprisonment is not enough for horrific crimes like this. I'm not getting into the whole death penalty/imprisonment for life argument because it's so pointless if neither side will agree with the others. You do a crime like this, you get the punishment. Most of my family seems to be in the same league too. Imprisonment is fine for some cases, but an extreme one like this? Forget it.

Why is it not enough? Both punishments have the same effect on us, the outsiders, and the people closely affected. The only difference is there's a lack of visceral satisfaction knowing that revenge was carried out when the death sentence is replaced with life in prison. That's not a good enough reason to kill someone, especially when they might have been condemned for wanting that very same satisfaction.

I've never understood the death penalty. Surely we, as a society, are beyond killing as a punishment in the 21st century? That need for revenge is immoral, and makes us no better than the men committing these crimes that we seek to punish. No-one has the right to kill, not even the state or an angry widow or a mother who's had her children killed, no-one. Improve, SWRP, this thread has left me hollow.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I agree with this guy. Sometimes imprisonment is not enough for horrific crimes like this. I'm not getting into the whole death penalty/imprisonment for life argument because it's so pointless if neither side will agree with the others. You do a crime like this, you get the punishment. Most of my family seems to be in the same league too. Imprisonment is fine for some cases, but an extreme one like this? Forget it.

And this, children, is the incredibly fine line between apathy and sociopath.

 

[Denzein]

ITT faceless people on the internet feeling brave enough to demand a man's death and mutilation from behind their keyboards. Some things are not meant for anonymous discussion.

 

[Phil]

I find myself disagreeing with you, Den. Also I said it was punishment, not revenge. The whole argument of "You kill them, you are no better then they are" is also the weakest, if not sometimes worst argument to use. So if you execute a man who rapes a child and murdered the mother, you are just as horrible a person? Are police as horrible people for open firing on a dangerous criminal who threatened him or another's life? Don't use the whole George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin incident thing as an example please.

That is just stupid, insulting and completely disrespectful. Is it to ensure you have more honor then the killers? To make yourself seem like the better person? Ask all who died in war, all who were murdered by maniacs/killers, and all who may or may not have just been in the wrong place if honor has even the significant importance to them.

We, humanity, have the right to protect ourselves and our people. If we have to execute a dangerous criminals to ensure we are safe, so be it. Agree, disagree, I don't care. That is how I see these things, judge me how you see fit.

 

[Colt556]

Oh, so it's justified when it's open and shut cases? And when we turn around in five years and new evidence appears (which does happen), then what, oops, too bad?

What new evidence? He was caught red handed, he was caught committing the crime. If I see you stab someone we should all go "oh well, there might be new evidence to suggest he didn't stab that man despite him running up, plunging the knife into the man, and twisting it for good measure!". Some cases do get new evidence, but those cases aren't the cases I'm referring to. The cases where we know, for a fact, 100% that you did it (such as video cameras watching you kill the man). For those we may as well kill you, since there wont be new evidence, we bloody watched you do it.

That's nice, but if you're talking about changing the current system (which you are), you'd need to prove evidence, statistics etc to prove that, hey this is actually happening for the majority of cases going through the system. Since you don't have that, then your broad generalizations are meaningless.

If I was out to change the current system I wouldn't be talking about it here. I'm simply voicing my opinions, they're as meaningless as anyone elses and hardly worth the time to go and research them. Nobody else here actually bothers to research their points and get hard data, I'm not about to change that.

Three trials and if they can't prove they're not guilty, then off with their heads? I should hook you up with the Queen of Hearts.

Why not? How many cases do we have to have? How much money do we have to spend? How much time must we take to realize "oh hey, we saw this guy commit the crime, let's punish him!". As I've said before, balance in all things. Letting the guy waste tax payer dollars for the rest of his life is hardly punishment. Giving him a fair shot to dispute the evidence is acceptable, letting him waste everyone's time and money isn't.

Humane from whose perspective? Let's say Convict X is married and has kids. He is guilty of a death penalty crime. So, is it humane to deprive the children of convict X of ever knowing their father? Is it humane to cut his life short, just because he did something wrong - regardless of said person's own choice? Who are you to decide whether a person is to live or die - in a society where murder is criminal, what gives any of us the right to decide the fate of another life when the whole point of prisons is to remove lawbreakers from the society they were a part of?

Let's tip this around. Let's say Convict X is married and has kids. He is guilty and sentenced to life in prison. Is it humane to keep those kids from having their father in their lives? Is it humane to force a man to spend all day every day locked up in a tiny cage, just because he did something wrong? Who are you to decide whether a person is to spend his entire life stuck in a concrete box - in a society where such actions are criminal, what gives any of us the right to decide the fate of another life when the whole point of prisons is to rehabilitate and reintroduce lawbreakers back into society?

I also fixed your perception on prison for you. Prisons aren't suppose to be day-carer centers for criminals, they're suppose to either put them to work or re-educate them and put them back into society. And it actually genuinely confuses me how you think living your entire life in a tiny concrete box is more humane than simply killing them. You can't even begin to imagine what it would be like. Ten years from now, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy, no TV. No radio. No computer. No interaction with anyone other than other criminals. Limited time outside of your little box. You honestly think this is more humane? It's like I've said, what some people consider moral, others consider immoral. And I think condemning someone to a life inside a tiny concrete box is equally as bad as outright killing them, if not more so. At least if you're dead you don't have to deal with the pain and suffering of wasting away in a cage without the hope of ever getting out. People, like you, never stop to realize just how bad life in prison really is.

So far, your idea of 'if the situation warrants it' is, at best, vague. So who determines whether a crime is worth the death penalty - because of how guilty the person is? Last I checked the legal process and the punishment process were fairly seperate entities - do we now get juries to grade guilt on a scale of 1 to 10 to determine punishment?

Why change what warrants the death penalty? You kill someone, death penalty, rape a kid, death penalty. Now being accused of those crimes and actually doing them are two different things. Did police catch you in the act of murdering someone? Then yeah, may as well kill you, cuz we saw you do it as I've already covered. If we have to rely on evidence, then I guess it's up to the people as it currently is, but better to air on the side of caution because as you said, new evidence might come up. But in cases, as I have described, where you're caught in the act and no new evidence will ever come up because we saw you do it, we should save everyone the trouble and kill you.

The very philosophy of our legal system is that guilt is in dispute. Everyone deserves to be able to exercise the full extent of the law on their behalf. If we start considering things open and shut and therefore we can cut corners, then we're taking the first steps on a dangerous road.

Then, if we wanna stick to that, we should find some other way. The law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished by spending their money to take care of criminals. So if we can't kill them, let's use them as slave labor. They can work their crimes off. Use the money from their work to maintain the prison system and pay the guards, and anything extra is free labor. Letting them get an all-expenses paid vacation on tax payer dollars is hardly a fitting punishment.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Then, if we wanna stick to that, we should find some other way. The law-abiding citizens shouldn't be punished by spending their money to take care of criminals. So if we can't kill them, let's use them as slave labor. They can work their crimes off. Use the money from their work to maintain the prison system and pay the guards, and anything extra is free labor. Letting them get an all-expenses paid vacation on tax payer dollars is hardly a fitting punishment.

I'm a law abiding citizen and I'd feel punished if my money went towards killing someone to satisfy the impulse of sociopaths like you.

The fact is, you won't always agree with everything that your tax money is used for. Liberals won't like war, but they have to pay for it. Conservatives won't like social programs, but they have to pay for them. That's the nature of our society. You don't get to only pay for what you agree with.

 

[Emerald Iris]

The fact is, you won't always agree with everything that your tax money is used for. Liberals won't like war, but they have to pay for it. Conservatives won't like social programs, but they have to pay for them. That's the nature of our society. You don't get to only pay for what you agree with.

Oh the sad truth that is.

 

[Colt556]

I'm a law abiding citizen and I'd feel punished if my money went towards killing someone to satisfy the impulse of sociopaths like you.

The fact is, you won't always agree with everything that your tax money is used for. Liberals won't like war, but they have to pay for it. Conservatives won't like social programs, but they have to pay for them. That's the nature of our society. You don't get to only pay for what you agree with.

War and social programs aren't law, though. It's kind of a new ballgame when your money is going to support a man who raped a little kid, don't you think? Besides, I came up with a solution that should work for people who think the death penalty is the absolute worst punishment imaginable and should never be used. Just use the criminals as slave labor. They're rotting away in jail anyways, may as well make them earn money.

 

[Black Noise]

The fact is, you won't always agree with everything that your tax money is used for. Liberals won't like war, but they have to pay for it. Conservatives won't like social programs, but they have to pay for them. That's the nature of our society. You don't get to only pay for what you agree with.

Oh the sad truth that is.

Yet we are thankful for it. If the entire treasury(budget) of a nation was held sway by the whim of her people then we would be in a sore spot.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

By the way, prisons are no vacation. We have a prison industrial complex in this country. Inmates are unwilling customers. The more inmates there are, the more money for-profit prisons make. It's one of the big reasons the war on drugs needs to end, because we're putting people behind bars for minor crimes and forcing them to be the engine of corporate profits.

So that's also something we have to fix.

 

[Colt556]

Well, I wont go off on drugs or anything but I do agree with that. Sending people to prison for breaking laws that don't actually hurt anyone is just beyond stupid. Prison should be for those are a threat to society. Some guy smoking pot isn't a threat to society.

 

[Cassanova]

Some guy smoking pot isn't a threat to society.

He is if he gets behind the wheel of a car.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

War and social programs aren't law, though.

lol what? It's all based on law.

It's kind of a new ballgame when your money is going to support a man who raped a little kid, don't you think?

That crime is heinous and I can think of nothing more despicable than that, but if you think our taxes aren't used for ****ed up things then you're wrong. My tax money is currently going towards killing Pakistani children with flying killer robots. My money is currently going to Israeli funding that is then used to destroy Palestinian homes and displace families. My money is currently going to making sure that, because of mandatory minimums, 37% of drug convictions are African Americans despite them only being 14% of drug arrests. My tax money is going to corporations who, over the last 40 years, have systematically dismantled the middle class and purchased our government.

My tax money goes to some pretty ****ed up things. I'd rather not add even more murder to that.

Besides, I came up with a solution that should work for people who think the death penalty is the absolute worst punishment imaginable and should never be used. Just use the criminals as slave labor. They're rotting away in jail anyways, may as well make them earn money.

You disgust me. I'm done.

 

[Colt556]

He is if he gets behind the wheel of a car.

THEN you punish him. We don't punish people for owning or drinking booze, we do it when they do something dangerous like driving. Drugs are no different.

lol what? It's all based on law.

Not what I meant.

No I don't. My tax money is currently going towards killing Pakistani children with flying killer robots. My money is currently going to Israeli funding that is then used to destroy Palestinian homes and displace families. My money is currently going to making sure that, because of mandatory minimums, 37% of drug convictions are African Americans despite them only being 14% of drug arrests. My tax money is going to corporations who, over the last 40 years, have systematically dismantled the middle class and purchased our government.

My tax money goes to some pretty ****ed up things. I'd rather not add even more murder to that.

You disgust me. I'm done.

This is what leaves me confused. You are, apparently, A-ok with having a man waste away in a 10x10 concrete box for the remainder of his natural life. That's perfectly fine, and fair, that's justice. You have no qualms about that. But then putting that man to use for society, making him help society as punishment for harming it, oh no suddenly that's disgusting? What? Really? I literally can not even begin to comprehend how you can come to that conclusion. You're content with all the bad things your tax money goes to, you make no attempt to change it, you just go about living your life, rping on a SW forum. Yet the idea of dealing with dangerous criminals in ways that ensure they are not a burden to society is absolutely terrible? That is logic I will never be able to understand. I'd rather see inmates building new roads or something than playing basketball and sleeping in a box.

 

[Phil]

He is if he gets behind the wheel of a car.

Same could be said about alcohol or other hallucinating substances.

EDIT: Also I think using dangerious convicts as slave labor is a very, very bad idea.

You are letting a rapist or a killer become your man servant. Think about it.

 

[Lavi]

War and social programs aren't law, though.

I'm trying to figure out the logic behind this. Laws are not solely designed to punish wrong-doers...

EDIT:

This is what leaves me confused. You are, apparently, A-ok with having a man waste away in a 10x10 concrete box for the remainder of his natural life. That's perfectly fine, and fair, that's justice. You have no qualms about that. But then putting that man to use for society, making him help society as punishment for harming it, oh no suddenly that's disgusting? What? Really? I literally can not even begin to comprehend how you can come to that conclusion. You're content with all the bad things your tax money goes to, you make no attempt to change it, you just go about living your life, rping on a SW forum. Yet the idea of dealing with dangerous criminals in ways that ensure they are not a burden to society is absolutely terrible? That is logic I will never be able to understand. I'd rather see inmates building new roads or something than playing basketball and sleeping in a box.

Good thing slave labor is outlawed in the U.S.

EDIT EDIT: My bad, forgot it's permitted as a punishment of crime. But it has to be specifically mentioned, not added on to "life imprisonment" or other such punishments by the judge.

 

[Colt556]

Same could be said about alcohol or other hallucinating substances.

EDIT: Also I think using dangerious convicts as slave labor is a very, very bad idea.

You are letting a rapist or a killer become your man servant. Think about it.

That very process has worked perfectly well for hundreds of years. It's still employed today in many countries, including the United States (although not to the degree I'd want). It works just fine, and it's far better than letting the guy do nothing for the rest of his life.

I'm trying to figure out the logic behind this. Laws are not solely designed to punish wrong-doers...

What I meant was that war and social programs aren't dealing with direct threats to our society and people that have broken those laws. War and social programs may have laws surrounding them, but they do not deal with those who break the laws and cause society harm. How we deal with our criminals is a bit different than how many drones we buy or how many welfare stamps we give out. That was the logic behind it.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Ok, I can't let this one slide.

This is what leaves me confused. You are, apparently, A-ok with having a man waste away in a 10x10 concrete box for the remainder of his natural life.

Twisting my words. Prison can be used for rehabilitation, and you can do constructive things while in prison. Just not as a slave.

I literally can not even begin to comprehend how you can come to that conclusion.

Well you're an idiot, so no surprise there.

You're content with all the bad things your tax money goes to, you make no attempt to change it, you just go about living your life, rping on a SW forum.

No to the first part, no to the second, no to the third, but yes I do RP in a SW forum. That's 1 out of 4. Better luck next time.

Yet the idea of dealing with dangerous criminals in ways that ensure they are not a burden to society is absolutely terrible?

I don't consider paying for prison to be a burden on society. It's a necessary part of an imperfect society.

That is logic I will never be able to understand. I'd rather see inmates building new roads or something than playing basketball and sleeping in a box.

Compensate them somehow. Give them extra recreation hours, or cigarettes (that's a commodity in prison), or extra visiting hours, or money to buy things from outside of prison that can be brought into the prison (within reason -- nothing dangerous). That makes sure they're not being exploited. When you use them as slaves, as you said, it's exploitation.

Now I'm done.

 

[Phil]

That very process has worked perfectly well for hundreds of years. It's still employed today in many countries, including the United States (although not to the degree I'd want). It works just fine, and it's far better than letting the guy do nothing for the rest of his life.

They also whipped them or threw them into holes in the ground as punishment, if they didn't outright kill them for disobedience. I doubt many people would approve of that. Plus, you start using convicts for slave labor, others will want to use others for it and we'll repeat history all over again.

We have something better then slave labor, it's called community service.