Obama ends don't ask don't tell

[Brandon Rhea]

?

What do you mean?

You're saying being gay is a choice, are you not?

 

[Tsar Fire]

You're saying being gay is a choice, are you not?

I'm saying it's not genetic. I'm saying it's a matter of environment and that is can possibly be changed. Again, there isn't much evidence for or against that fact, because nobody is willing to study it, because it would cost too much, and the unknown factors always make the evidence sketchy at best.

It is, however, fairly obvious that it isn't a genetic, inborn thing.

 

[Neutrino]

I'm not saying they all do, I'm just saying that it happens no matter your sexual orientation. I've had drunk guys try and hit on girls I'm hanging out with before, and it's nasty.

Having anyone else in your unit do something like that would completely destroy trust. Pretty much what I'm trying to say, is that you probably shouldn't have sex be a big issue among soldiers. It just shouldn't even be an issue...

But there are coed units.

So are you saying that the entire military should be of one gender and that the policy should be that everyone's sexual orientation should be straight?

And what do you know of a unit's trust?

 

[Green Ranger]

I'm failing to see this particular argument's relevance in the whole don't ask don't tell policy thing.

Then again, I haven't really been paying attention.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

It is genetic in humans just like in any other animal. You can't blame a penguin, or Koala's culture or psychosis for it being gay.

 

[Random Hero]

It is genetic in humans just like in any other animal. You can't blame a penguin, or Koala's culture or psychosis for it being gay.

There are gay Koalas?

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

There are gay Koalas?

There's all kinds of gays in various species that reproduces with the use of a mate as opposed to crop dusting like fish or other non-sexual reproduction. Though the koalas to be fair are most noted for lesbians, not gays.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

There are some gay penguins, IIRC.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

There are some gay penguins, IIRC.

I was being serious about the Koalas too though... both my posts were serious...

 

[Tsar Fire]

It is genetic in humans just like in any other animal. You can't blame a penguin, or Koala's culture or psychosis for it being gay.

Did you bother to read what I posted? It's been proven to the point where even the APA can't honestly say it is genetic any more. I have seen no evidence whatsoever of a "gay" gene.

As a matter of fact, there is more indication that it would be the hormonal wash during pregnancy that could effect a person's sexual development, and even that is purely speculation. To be honest, the issue is not an "either or" type of question.

It is largely how your genes and early development might predispose you towards certain behaviors.

 

[Viggy]

Did you bother to read what I posted? It's been proven to the point where even the APA can't honestly say it is genetic any more. I have seen no evidence whatsoever of a "gay" gene.

As a matter of fact, there is more indication that it would be the hormonal wash during pregnancy that could effect a person's sexual development, and even that is purely speculation. To be honest, the issue is not an "either or" type of question.

It is largely how your genes and early development might predispose you towards certain behaviors.

Even if what you say is true, that doesn't make homosexuality a choice. So it is basically the same situation as if it were genetic. Except that you want to argue that this means gay people can be turned straight with "therapy" (sounds like brainwashing to me)

But, what for? To conform with your religious ideals?

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Did you bother to read what I posted? It's been proven to the point where even the APA can't honestly say it is genetic any more. I have seen no evidence whatsoever of a "gay" gene.

As a matter of fact, there is more indication that it would be the hormonal wash during pregnancy that could effect a person's sexual development, and even that is purely speculation. To be honest, the issue is not an "either or" type of question.

It is largely how your genes and early development might predispose you towards certain behaviors.

Your right I didn't read what you wrote, it's clearly the early development of a gay penguin and his culture ontop of a deep psychosis that did it...:CAbove: The physical evidence such as the increased size in the hypothalamus in humans that are gay that's purely coincidental, nothing in their genetics would contribute to that, it's clearly me not listening to you and offering a proper rebuttal that you've yet to address two or three times now...

Sarcasm aside I would also like to point out that there's no reason for therapy to ungay someone. It's how they are naturally and it's not harmful to anyone, the only thing therapy would do is place them in denial of who they are which would cause more harm to them than good, so in this case it wouldn't be therapeutic at all for them.

 

[Kaeb]

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jrh8VVwMI4

 

[Tsar Fire]

Your right I didn't read what you wrote, it's clearly the early development of a gay penguin and his culture ontop of a deep psychosis that did it...:CAbove: The physical evidence such as the increased size in the hypothalamus in humans that are gay that's purely coincidental, nothing in their genetics would contribute to that, it's clearly me not listening to you and offering a proper rebuttal that you've yet to address two or three times now...

Sarcasm aside I would also like to point out that there's no reason for therapy to ungay someone. It's how they are naturally and it's not harmful to anyone, the only thing therapy would do is place them in denial of who they are which would cause more harm to them than good, so in this case it wouldn't be therapeutic at all for them.

That's the first thing you've posted that's even remotely relevant. The behavior of animals has nothing to do with this discussion. I posted a legitimate proof backed by scientific fact and method. Bluntly, to perform gentics research, to see if a trait has corresponding genetic roots, scientists examine twins, and should find a 100% correspondence. Since they found 50% or less, that means homosexuality isn't genetic. You can't get around that.

What's more, it has been proven consistently, time and again, that people are not defined solely by genetic, or even the early development. People continue to change and develop over time, as evidenced by identical twins, who are not the same person in duplicate, except in regards to origin. So, therefore, Homosexuality is not immutable, irreversible, or, necessarily, natural. It is something which develops from the entirity of a person's development, and they may have certain traits which predispose them towards a specific sexual orientation.

To compare, there is no "basketball player" gene, but there are genes that make you tall, and that in turn might make you interested in being a basketball player, but does not, in fact, make you a basketball player.

Homosexuality seems to follow a similar vein. You might have certain genetic or pre-birth conditions which might predispose you towards being a homosexual, but they do not, in any way, force you to become one.

And in regards to the hypothalamus, there are many differences in the brains of a pianist and an athlete. Your brain develops depending on what you do, and even men responsible for doing the research into the gland have said, and I quote; "This proves that you can study sexual orientation at the biological level," LeVay asserts. "There are differences in the brains of adult gay and straight men." However, he warns, "my data don't say how that difference arose."

That bold part is key. Those differences are only examined once the subject was already dead, already gay, and already had been gay for some time; the brain adapts and develops to facilitate the way we live, and our patterns of behavior become programmed into it. This research is really not conclusive in regards to the "natural" status of homosexuality.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

That's the first thing you've posted that's even remotely relevant.

I'll reply to the rest later, I'm currently in class. But you've got to be not reading what I've posted to say that nothing else I've said in this discussion relevant.

 

[Tsar Fire]

I'll reply to the rest later, I'm currently in class. But you've got to be not reading what I've posted to say that nothing else I've said in this discussion relevant.

I'm only referencing these last few pages about homosexuality itself, I'm kind of ignoring all the pages before this about the "Don't ask Don't tell".

Sorry if I missed something back there.

 

[SilentKill]

I've been waiting for that to pass for a long time.. Hopefully we can progress humanity to make the gay rights better.

And I dont believe homosexuality is a choice, if so then why would they choose such a hard life if they had a choice?