Obama ends don't ask don't tell

[Venom]

He could try again. But if the Bill isn't passed, then imo he will probably just forget about the healthcare and focus on the other stuff he has on his plate. And since he promised the American people free healthcare, that would be Obama letting the American people down.

Not really, it would be the American congress letting people down.

 

[Sovereign]

He could try again, altering his plan to try and make it more likely to pass Congress. But if the Bill isn't passed, then imo he will probably just forget about the healthcare and focus on the other stuff he has on his plate. And since he promised the American people free healthcare, that would be Obama letting the American people down.

However, I do agree with you that it will probably be passed.

He needs congress, and if congress isn't on his side then how is it his problem? His bill is just going to be shot down every time.

 

[Viggy]

Not really, it would be the American congress letting people down.

If Obama stopped trying to accomplish what he promised after just one proposed Bill, that would be him letting the people down. Though the fault would more directly be on Congress for not passing the Bill, Congress aren't the ones who promised the free healthcare.

He needs congress, and if congress isn't on his side then how is it his problem? His bill is just going to be shot down every time.

I guess I just don't think he ought to stop trying after being shot down once. He should try to figure out a way to make a healthcare bill Congress would pass, that achieves as much of what he promised as possible. That would be keeping his promise to the best of his ability. If he doesn't do that, he's a let-down in my books.

But this is all academic. He hasn't been shot down at all, yet. Let's wait and see if the Bill is passed.

 

[Sovereign]

If Obama stopped trying to accomplish what he promised after just one proposed Bill, that would be him letting the people down. Though the fault would more directly be on Congress for not passing the Bill, Congress aren't the ones who promised the free healthcare.

Obama never promised free healthcare, he promised health care reform.

 

[Viggy]

Obama never promised free healthcare, he promised health care reform.

I'm not gonna go dig through his speeches and find a quote, but I definetly remember that he promised "health care for all Americans" or something like that.

Besides, if the Bill isn't passed and Obama just gives up, there won't be any reform either.

 

[Sovereign]

Besides, if the Bill isn't passed and Obama just gives up, there won't be any reform either.

Members of congress are elected by the American people, so technically, if the Bill isn't passed, you could argue that the American people isn't in favor of it.

 

[Horizon]

It happens or it doesn't happen.
Right?


:CHappy:................:CCry1:

 

[Viggy]

Members of congress are elected by the American people, so technically, if the Bill isn't passed, you could argue that the American people isn't in favor of it.

That argument would be a stretch imo... The American people cannot be expected to know how Congress will vote on everything, and the candidates for Congress don't even make speeches or promises or anything like that, to my knowledge.

 

[Caleb]

That argument would be a stretch imo.

That IS the argument. Elected representatives represent the people.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

That IS the argument. Elected representatives represent the people.

Yeah, on paper. Reality has a funny way of screwing with us sometimes.

 

[The Count of Monte Cristo]

Yeah, on paper. Reality has a funny way of screwing with us sometimes.

I agree.
I really doubt Illinois voted in Balgojevich so he could represent the corruptness of their state. Yeahhh....

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I agree.
I really doubt Illinois voted in Balgojevich so he could represent the corruptness of their state. Yeahhh....

Some people voted him in for that. That's just the nature of Illinois.

But regardless of people like that, your point stands.

 

[Tsar Fire]

Stuff like this is always tense. You don't hold back the forwarding of civil rights because it might be tense. Black people aren't forced to keep sitting on the back of the bus because it might be a little tense between them and white people. No, we did it anyway. It's called suck it up and deal with it. That goes for both gays and straights. The tension will eventually go away.

True, but being black and being gay are two different things, despite what you might hear, I have it, on the authority of psychologists and behavioral studies, that homosexuality is not genetic, is not irreversible, and is largely environmental. That doesn't mean that homosexual people should be discriminated against, but I do argue that there is a difference between race and sexual orientation.

I don't give a shit. Why should it bother me? Why should it bother you? It's just a guy feeling his natural feelings. Am I going to take him out on a date? **** no, I'm not gay, but I don't care what a gay guy is thinking if I'm standing right next to him. It really shouldn't matter.

Well, that's called sexual harrassment actually, and would we say it's ok for guys to check out a girl, against her will? Sure, it happens all the time, but it doesn't make it right.

If you're actually considering the sexual orientation of people around the room, ie. you're saying "oh shit is that guy gay? Please tell me he's not gay," then you're homophobic. All the more reason to end this stupid policy. The best way to get people used to someone different, just like how we got white people used to black people, is to force them together and make them interact. If you don't do that, then they'll keep on being racist or homophobic thinking that the other person is sub-human because that's what's convenient for them.

But if a guy is checking you out, making suggestive faces at you, and generally trying to make you uncomfortable, he's out of line. Same as if a woman did it.

In regards to "Don't ask, Don't Tell" No, I don't think people should be kicked out for their sexual orientation, but I do think it should be an unspoken rule for people to keep it to themselves, straight or gay; combat isn't a place to be worrying about such things.

 

[Cailst]

In regards to "Don't ask, Don't Tell" No, I don't think people should be kicked out for their sexual orientation, but I do think it should be an unspoken rule for people to keep it to themselves, straight or gay; combat isn't a place to be worrying about such things.

Well, sometimes it is. Hopefully, American soldiers would never participate in it but rape is sometimes a part of war. While much of it wouldn't be for the enjoyment of the sex but for some sense of power, I'm guessing beautiful women probably would get raped more than old hags.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

True, but being black and being gay are two different things, despite what you might hear, I have it, on the authority of psychologists and behavioral studies, that homosexuality is not genetic, is not irreversible, and is largely environmental. That doesn't mean that homosexual people should be discriminated against, but I do argue that there is a difference between race and sexual orientation.

Mind siting your multiple, peer reviewed sources for that one good sir? I mean of course about the psychology bit, not the race part.

Well, that's called sexual harrassment actually, and would we say it's ok for guys to check out a girl, against her will? Sure, it happens all the time, but it doesn't make it right.

Someone standing next to you is sexual harassament? What? A guy feeling something is sexual harassment? What part of what bac said is sexual harassment?

But if a guy is checking you out, making suggestive faces at you, and generally trying to make you uncomfortable, he's out of line. Same as if a woman did it.

rofl, just because someone is gay does not mean he is going to check you out, make suggestive advances or the like at you. Let me ask you something, you are straight right? Do you go out of your way to do the things you just listed? I doubt it. Neither does a gay man or woman.

In regards to "Don't ask, Don't Tell" No, I don't think people should be kicked out for their sexual orientation, but I do think it should be an unspoken rule for people to keep it to themselves, straight or gay; combat isn't a place to be worrying about such things.

You seem to have a very bad idea of what actually is the military. Did you ever talk to anyone in the military, or are yo going off of movies in which the troops are fighting 100% of the time. Combat in todays engagements doesn't last all that long on average . Most deployments happen after combat, during what's refered to as an occupation stage. In this time is when the military is trying to rebuild what they've destroyed, or repair that which the enemy destroyed. You're there. The people in your troop that are there with you are then your family. You would, by the end of a deployment know almost everything about them. Because 95% of the time, you aren't fighting in the sandbox. You're training, or being bored shitless.

 

[Tsar Fire]

Mind siting your multiple, peer reviewed sources for that one good sir? I mean of course about the psychology bit, not the race part.

There's a book called homosexuality and the politics of truth, which is written by a psychologist and is documented and researched(it uses a lot of studies that are quoted by the gay lobby, btw). I haven't finished it yet, but it raises questions at least, which I have not heard answered, it also sheds some light on the gay lobby's smear tactics. I'm still not done with it, and haven't cross-checked it's sources yet, and the second half is overtly religious, but I think it makes some good points.

Someone standing next to you is sexual harassament? What? A guy feeling something is sexual harassment? What part of what bac said is sexual harassment?



rofl, just because someone is gay does not mean he is going to check you out, make suggestive advances or the like at you. Let me ask you something, you are straight right? Do you go out of your way to do the things you just listed? I doubt it. Neither does a gay man or woman.

I'm not saying they all do, I'm just saying that it happens no matter your sexual orientation. I've had drunk guys try and hit on girls I'm hanging out with before, and it's nasty.

Having anyone else in your unit do something like that would completely destroy trust. Pretty much what I'm trying to say, is that you probably shouldn't have sex be a big issue among soldiers. It just shouldn't even be an issue...

Whatever... this really isn't going anywhere.

 

[Ser Gregor]

It just shouldn't even be an issue...

You're certainly right about that. People need to grow the **** up and stop worrying if John Smith thinks your ass looks good.

 

[Tsar Fire]

Mind siting your multiple, peer reviewed sources for that one good sir? I mean of course about the psychology bit, not the race part.

A part of the response.

The reason is immaterial. One of the favored ways for researchers to identify traits that are purely genetic is by studying identical twins; since identical twins have identical DNA, genetically-determined traits will appear in both twins 100% of the time. If one has blue eyes, for instance, so will the other — eye color is entirely genetic. There have been three studies of identical twins in which at least one twin was gay, two of them by gay researchers hoping to find a genetic link. None of the three studies found 100% correlation in sexual preference between identical twins; in fact, none of them even produced 50% correlation. The question regarding what does cause homosexuality is not settled by these studies, but one thing certainly does not cause it, and that’s genes. There may be influencing genetic factors (the way height, a genetic trait, influences basketball ability, for instance), but there is no gay gene.

Again, didn't read the whole thing... but this is kinda the gist of one of the book's chapters.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I'm confused, then. Are all gay people who say it's not a choice stupid, or are they liars?

 

[Tsar Fire]

I'm confused, then. Are all gay people who say it's not a choice stupid, or are they liars?

?

What do you mean?