The Force Awakens - Thoughts and Reactions (SPOILERS WITHIN)

[Jake]

While I was unimpressed with the movie as a whole, Kylo Ren and his story were one of the better parts of it. It's actually very interesting that a character working on a very similar premise is vastly more successful purely on the strength of writing/acting alone. It definitely shows that the movie is simply better executed than any of the prequels. Unfortunately, George Lucas could have learned a thing or two from the stories in the EU and basically even SWRP about how to write in his universe.

 

[Zay]

LOL.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

LOL.

Care to elaborate? This really adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[Vulpes]

I've kind of settled down my hype, and I still really like the movie after contemplating it. I've seen a surprising amount of people who're unhappy with it, but each to their own.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Haters gonna hate. The vast majority of people have loved it.

 

[Zay]

Care to elaborate? This really adds nothing to the discussion.

To elaborate, I really liked Jake's comment. I agreed with his comments between Kylo and Anakin and thought it was funny when he slammed Lucus for his poor take on the prequel movies. I don't think it was really necessary to jump on me for simply posting lol. I wasn't attacking anyone or being negative at all, and if you feel the need to discuss this more I'll be happy to talk on skype or in PM's in order to maintain the integrity of this thread.

I apologize for the disruption. It wasn't my intention.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Just posting "LOL" is generally regarded as spammy on forums, so it's better not to do that in the future. No harm, no foul!

 

[Zay]

Copy that brother! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Logan]

I've kind of settled down my hype, and I still really like the movie after contemplating it. I've seen a surprising amount of people who're unhappy with it, but each to their own.

I think that's gong to happen to matter what. There are always gonna be people who are just going to shit on something because, well I don't know why. Lol

I literally saw someone say that this movie was too much like the prequels and gave it a 3/10 for not adhering to his OT nostalgia from when he was a kid. This was the face I made:

 

[GABA]

I think '2187' should be the empire's unlucky number as '13' is for us.

 

[Loco]

I just got out of the theater. I'll get back to you guys when it all sinks in and I can form coherent thoughts again.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Realistic isn't really the best choice of words when we're dealing with an all powerful energy field that gives people telekinetic powers.

To really understand what they did with Rey, you have to go to the heart of what the Force was in the original films, particularly in The Empire Strikes Back - which Lawrence Kasdan, who co-wrote this film, wrote back in the day. The Force was never about training like it was in the prequels. It was never about having certain power levels, or experience, or whatever. Training and experience were necessary in order to fully comprehend and utilize the power at your disposal, but Jedi training - particularly the training Yoda gave Luke - was ultimately about one thing: using the Force without falling prey to the seductions of the dark side.

Rey, who probably had some training as a child (her vision implied she was there when Kylo massacred the new Jedi), went through the journey that's at the heart of the Force. It's a journey of self-discovery, of overcoming fears and self-doubts, and finding that the power was within you the whole time. That's exactly the progression she took in this film. First, she found the lightsaber and realized the power of the Force was with her, but she rejected it. It wasn't until Kylo tortured her that she finally started to accept her destiny and her power. That's why Kylo said that Rey would get stronger the more she made her way through the Starkiller, because she would start to accept herself and use her latent abilities. She finally fully accepted who she was when she called the lightsaber into her hand and fought Kylo.

I would very much argue that anyone who says she's a Mary Sue (and I know you didn't say that) doesn't fully understand the Star Wars mythos, or at the very least is too invested in the prequel and Expanded Universe notion that the Jedi are about power levels, etc. This is Star Wars going back to its roots.



I hope not. Rey is the Jedi. Poe is the war hero. Finn should be the everyman, like Han Solo was.

So when yoda says word for word "he's too old to begin the training" that was what? Him talking out of his green swamp ass?

 

[Andrewza]

Age has nothing to do with training in the force or use of a lightsaber. Both luke and ankin where to old. The age is more about training one spirt and what not. Aka you training Jedi not soldiers a Jedi is a mystic warroir monk.



Any case who wants to learn more about Maz Kanata. The 1000 year old force senstive pirate. She needs a book and maybe a Cameo in Rebels.

 

[Jake]

I think the age limit for Jedi training goes with the concept that children haven't had their "purity" tarnished and thus are easier to teach the Force without things like passion and emotion getting in the way. In the old EU Luke abolishes this tenet whenever he starts up his Praxeum on Ossus anyway.

 

[Kaeb]

So, while I think this movie was a welcome return to the correct tone, aesthetic and archetypes of the original trilogy, the story was derivitiative and the narrative completely uninventive. I liked the characters, I didn't exactly hate them anyway, but I loathed how they handled the characterisation of Finn. He goes from sombrely comforting his dying Stormtrooper comrade, to suddenly deciding to not only flee to the other side of the war, but he has no problem mercilessly killing all his former comrades, and he cheers and makes jokes while he does it. Did the comedy work? Sure most of the time, but it detracted from the previously established elements of his arc.

Poe suddenly turning up with no explanation. A third Death Star. Maz Kanata and Snoke looked like prequel garbage, none of the "twists" were in any way surprising. I grew to like the concepts behind Rey and Ren, but the lack of explanation behind their back stories and their drive drew me away from becoming invested. I'm in kind of a rush so I don't have time to address much more but if I were to give this attempt an arbitrary score it would be somewhere between a 6 and 6.5.

 

[Green Ranger]

That's about as close to a glowing review you'll get from Kaeb, so job done, I say.

 

[Jake]

I was wondering when Kaeb would show up with an opinion, as the site's running movie nerd (with very similar tastes to mine as well). He pretty much echoes my opinion of TFA. Now we just need Santoro to show up and tell us something. :'(

 

[Kaeb]

I'll give it a 6. It isn't a bad movie but it's not particularly inventive which is ironic considering that THAT is what made Star Wars so impactful in the first place.

Considering that I'd give Phantom Menace a 1, Clones a 0.3 and Revenge a 0.5 out of 10, that's a lot more than I was expecting. The main draw back though, is that it felt more like a muddled set up for a story rather than a story in and of itself. And it set up that story with a near remake of ANH. I left theatre thinking just what a shame that was.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

So when yoda says word for word "he's too old to begin the training" that was what? Him talking out of his green swamp ass?

There's a difference between saying Luke is too old (and therefore set in his ways) to take on the burdens that were going to be placed before him, and saying that the training is a completely rigorous years-long exercise. The concept of intensive training only came around in Episode I. In the original trilogy, Yoda teaches Luke how to move rocks with his mind for about 5 minutes, and that's it. His real training was finding the light in himself, overcoming the dark side, and confronting Darth Vader. That's why Yoda said that Luke didn't require anymore training, and that only by confronting Vader could he truly become a Jedi Knight.

It was those actions that made him one of the greatest Jedi in history. It had nothing to do with being taken into a weird cult when he was 1, swinging a lightsaber around in a room full of children, and spending 10 years training with a master.

That's why it doesn't matter to me that Rey doesn't have this prequelized idea of Force training. Her skills come from years of surviving on Jakku, and her ability to begin using the Force comes from finding the power and confidence within her. Her real training and trials are her confrontation with Kylo Ren, finding Luke, and whatever destiny lies ahead.

This is Star Wars going back to its roots.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

@Brandon Rhea , I'm pretty sure there was more time to his training then just 5 minutes of rock lifting. He spends days on dagobah, in movie time at least, and while not everything was rigorous training on screen he was having guudance in the difference between light and dark. Additionally, luke cutting his training short meant he didn't know how to do most of what he could do in return of the jedi, and him losing to even the character boba fett, let alone darth vader. It takes 3 years of additional training, or sometime equivocal to that, for luke to get as strong as he did, and even then it took more experience and a close call to the dark side for luke to fully realize the way of the jedi and trust in the force fully, tossing aside his weapon and refusing the temptation to continue to fight.
Throughout the time period luke was constantly both under powered and battling a draw to the dark side. And while he did preform the miraculous feats like summoning his saber in the ice cave to blowing up the death star, they weren't constant nor something he could really control. With rey, it felt like she had too much control over the force, able to use powers like mental manipulation of others and seemingly fighting herself not to use her powers, the opposite of lukes early problem really. I wouldn't have as big a problem if the technique wasn't depicted as something you had to learn how to do, but that's how it's been shown to function even in the original trilogy, with obi wan and an experienced luke able to do so after learning how to accept the force and learn what it could do.

I don't really mind rey flying the falcon, nor do I mind her beating ren, mostly because both fall in line with the established material of force sensitives being naturally gifted and lucky, with the force serving as their instincts and as a spider sense, for lack of a better term. Also because i agree a lot with your assessment of kylo ren. But it was thst one thing along with the constant character trait of resisting the force that makes it seem like shes way more skilled then she should be given her presented backstory.

With your head canon on her origin story it makes a lot more sense, and I personally would like it to be the case, or something along those lines. But as it stands, I cannot help but think they made her just a tad too skilled, and only because of that one ability. Still, I given them credit to getting so close to the mark as far as developing the character to generally let this slide for now, pending further information thst we'll probably get later on. Along with more character development for Kylo, or Darth Zuko as I will think of him from now on.

Also, something I find odd is that with this movies plot, it reinforces the notion of midichlorians without directly referencing it. Force sensitivity is now officially hereditary, as we have 3 generations of force users, all of which have maintained an incredibly strong connection to the force seemingly from birth. As far as jedi are concerned, blood is a strong source of connection to the force. It also makes it rsther amusing that this wasn't capitalized in the prequels, as it could have easily been the reason for jedi being forbidden from having children. That a thousand generations ago or thousand years ago, jedi were allowed to have kids, but this resulted in a dynasty of force users, some of which grew arrogant and tried to overthrow the republic with the belief that their many lines of powerful force abilites made thsm destined to rule. They could even be banished and served as the origins of the sith, and that ever since jedi have been forbidden from having children to keep another dynasty from arising and falling to arrogance. It's another in the long list of things the prequels screwed up and wasted. But with our current soon to be Dawn of the Republic coming up, I couldn't help but think about it and the implications of hereditary conncetions to the force. I can't help but wonder if they might be plotting for force bloodlines to play a role in the later installments either. It would be interesting if snoke was the product of such a most likely vile research into such things.

Point is, liked the movie a lot. Most of whwt others say take the words out of my mouth. And may the gods of balance have mercy on the admin team who have to rule on force sensitivies and whst they can do without training.