The Battle of Zigoola OOC

[Sisk_Renelo]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of the points that you have made. And this is not my being bitchy or nitpicky, this is me expressing some legitimate concerns.

First off, you say that you started throwing up a barrier when Sisk raised his rifle. that does not give Rook a second a half. That gives him half a second at the most to throw up a barrier. A barrier, which according to his character sheet is a novice power. Just because you're character finally reached master doesn't mean the powers he hasn't worked on come super easy to him. A novice power does not come up in less than half a second. And the second and a half in my post was from the time you fired the sonic weapon. If the sonic weapon travels at the speed of sound, then it would take approximately half a second to reach Sisk. Add in half a second for the "wtf" moment, and then factor in his reaction time, you're looking at less than half a second to react and throw up a barrier to block bullets traveling faster than sound. Even for Weiss that would be a challenge.

Second, Force Crush, which would be required to crush the visor, is not listed in your force abilities anywhere. And for the kind of precision you're trying to achieve, it would have to be at master level. Has he used force crush in the 18+ threads requires to get it to master level? Plus, the visor is glassteel. That stuff is used to make cockpits. Able to stand up to a space battle =/= brittle.

You're also acting like I'm just standing there, which the end of my post makes abundantly clear is not going to happen. Sisk is ready to move at the slightest provocation, which makes him a moving target and therefore requires a much higher degree of precision to crush a visor that is maybe an inch tall by 8 inches wide. It's not listed anywhere, and if you're using it as a derivation of choke, it's also at novice.

And last but not least, and this is more personal preference than anything, I think that turning a mistake into a "hah, you feel right into my trap" instead of just admitting you messed up, especially when there was no indication that it was a trap earlier and your character was trying to get the drop on another is almost retroactive GMing. it leaves the idea that your characters can do no wrong and even when he messes up it was for a reason.

 

[Clayton]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of the points that you have made. And this is not my being bitchy or nitpicky, this is me expressing some legitimate concerns.

First off, you say that you started throwing up a barrier when Sisk raised his rifle. that does not give Rook a second a half. That gives him half a second at the most to throw up a barrier. A barrier, which according to his character sheet is a novice power. Just because you're character finally reached master doesn't mean the powers he hasn't worked on come super easy to him. A novice power does not come up in less than half a second. And the second and a half in my post was from the time you fired the sonic weapon.

Or it just isn't powerful and can stop only a handful of bullets before failing. Also you're selectively ignoring stuff you wrote. Sisk also took the time to zoom in and identify Rook's weapon, then activating a target-locking ability your scope doesn't actually have for that grenade.

If the sonic weapon travels at the speed of sound, then it would take approximately half a second to reach Sisk. Add in half a second for the "wtf" moment, and then factor in his reaction time, you're looking at less than half a second to react and throw up a barrier to block bullets traveling faster than sound. Even for Weiss that would be a challenge.

Try .11 seconds. And if Sisk can identify the type of attack and react by shutting his audio filters off in that amount of time, Rook can throw up a barrier. If Obi-Wan can deflect a full-on hail of bullets from Durge, Rook can stop four.

Second, Force Crush, which would be required to crush the visor, is not listed in your force abilities anywhere. And for the kind of precision you're trying to achieve, it would have to be at master level. Has he used force crush in the 18+ threads requires to get it to master level? Plus, the visor is glassteel.

No. Nor have I specifically used Push 18 times, or Pull 18 times, or Lift 18 times. They all fall under TK, and combined, Rook's used TK powers that much at least. Plus after a certain point, most profiles of the same rank list Telekinesis as a whole. It doesn't mean Crush or similar are unknown, they're just included in that set.

How many threads did Sisk do training with the BK to get used to it's own quirks, kick, weight, optics, trigger pull, etc?

That stuff is used to make cockpits. Able to stand up to a space battle =/= brittle.

Cockpits sure, your visor isn't going to be that thick however unless Sisk wants his helmet to be ludicrously front-heavy. And yes, brittle. Unless exceptionally thin, or made from rubber derivatives, clear mediums are brittle because of their molecular composition. BUT, this is Star Wars. So let's base it off SW tech. Grievous threw a blunt spear through a battleship's bridge window. It shattered. Now transparisteel is many times weaker than durasteel. So let's assume it was super thick to stand up to stresses in combat so it would have the relative strength of an acceptable thickness of durasteel. Now, let's imagine that glasteel is a natural improvement upon transparisteel. It's stronger, but would likely have similar properties.

BUT. Let's again look at your cockpit analogy. A cockpit would have to stand up to a laser cannon hit. It would have to be thick to do that, which would mean greater resistance to fracturing as well. But your visor is magnitudes weaker. It can only stand up to a couple pistol or rifle shots. So it's strength is no greater than bog-standard durasteel. And it not going to be as thick as the rest of your helmet, there has to be room for all those fancy displays and vision modes you have.

You're also acting like I'm just standing there, which the end of my post makes abundantly clear is not going to happen. Sisk is ready to move at the slightest provocation, which makes him a moving target and therefore requires a much higher degree of precision to crush a visor that is maybe an inch tall by 8 inches wide.

Really?

Sisk watched the Sith raise a pistol and fire at him, the sonic weapon booming. The rounds flew at him, and he braced himself to take them on his plates.

And Sisk stood there, immobile. Immobile, that is, until Sisk raised his rifle.

It seems you aren't reading my posts fully. Or you're retroactively changing what you have Sisk doing.

And last but not least, and this is more personal preference than anything, I think that turning a mistake into a "hah, you feel right into my trap" instead of just admitting you messed up, especially when there was no indication that it was a trap earlier and your character was trying to get the drop on another is almost retroactive GMing. it leaves the idea that your characters can do no wrong and even when he messes up it was for a reason.

Like you having Sisk stand stock still while someone shoots at him, and being able to somehow hear that the gun is a sonic weapon (which by the time he heard that, Sisk would have been shot) and then retroactively react to that and turn off his audio filters before the rounds hit, all in under .11 seconds? I can get nitpicky too.



OR I'm perfectly happy to meet halfway, maybe the visor only cracks and is weakened.

EDIT: fix'd a misread

 

[BLADE]

Let me see if I can simplify this for people who don't want to spend pages reading a nerd slap-fight.

The barrier point goes solidly to Sisk. No way to do it in less than a second given the speeds, logistical ranges, ballistic vectors, etc. involved here.

As to the visor...

A couple of reasons.

Basically we're dealing with tensile strength here. I've always been a bit of an aeronautics nerd (even to the point of getting my license to fly, kthx!) but the way most cockpits work are that they are molded into a female casing and then tested for warps, etc. The process strikes me as not dissimilar from the way Sisk's cockpit (with the auto-tint, etc.) is supposed to work, so his analogy makes sense.

What then is the tensile strength of this material? The simplest way to do so is to scale up from the pressure needed (the pascals, if you will) to break glass, and then apply what we might conceive of/know of Star Wars engineering.

It takes roughly 5 kilopascals (5kpa or 5 thousand) to break glass at atmospheric pressure etc. (my model will ignore some of these factors to make our work easier)

Now, the argument about surviving the rigors of vacuum is well made, and the space shuttle etc. have been known to use glass in the megapascal range (depending on thickness, when we're talking several inches or a couple of centimeters gigapascals.) But from an engineering standpoint, a shield (essentially a heat shunt) and very small glass implements would be the way to affordably build starships. We see this in the Battle of the Katana Fleet, as well as in Return of the Jedi, where even military-grade duraglass/glassteel on the flagship of the most prestigious fleet in the galaxy is unable to withstand extreme forces.

It seems to me fairly straightforward then that while Star Wars glass or its equivalent is supremely more durable than our real-world equivalents, that it is still not the main choice in resisting the various stresses of space.

Therefore we will go with an order of magnitude of more over glass and then double that to be generous, or roughly 200 times stronger than average glass (and most types of aeronautical glass).

So how do we settle this?

Math.

Force is equal to the product of pressure times area (think enthalpy, though we will ignore heat.)

Force divided by area (or roughly speaking, the less area in which an impact diffuses, the more pressure will be yielded) is therefore equal to pressure (F/SA = ρ)

Or via the magic of analytical algebra:

F= ρ * SA

We already know what the pressure is, of course, but let's imput in the numbers

F = 1e6 pascals * SA

What is the surface area here? Just taking what is affecting the visor (which would be quite a bit smaller than a smartphone's surface area) would yield perhaps ten square centimeters. The point about precision is well-made, so we will take the average of say a hand (roughly .054 square meters) or the isometric area from which the blast is originating at the ten square centimeters (or .001 square meters.)

Or roughly .02 square meters)

So

F = 1e6 *.02

Which brings us to 20 thousand Newtons.

Rather meaningless for the non-physics inclined, but the equivalent would be say, a driver getting slammed about in a car that abruptly crashed at over 75 miles per hour.

A strong telekinetic force attack, per my calculations (Force equaling Mass times Acceleration in this algebraic iteration) is roughly equal to 30 thousand Newtons. Some of it, of course, sloughed off by materials, etc.

tl;dr

Given what we see in the movies, material, etc.

The visor point goes to Silverphoenix. There might even be argument to be made that getting hit in the face with a diffuse Force push (the result of lack of precision if you will) would result in decapitation let alone a snapped neck. Which is not to rule either way but to say that the visor point strikes me as itself (shattered, but without damage to Sisk's eyes) a reasonable compromise per se.

Overall, Sisk would be vulnerable but presumably Silverdood's wookiee guy has taken a bunch of nasty slug shots or whatever is being used.

Disclaimer: Not an admin post obviously (duh), but hopefully something to clarify things to both parties. Play nice kids!

 

[Clayton]

And in an effort to make this not 5 pages of nerd slap-fight, Sisk, are you willing to work on a compromise here where both our dudes take some damage?

 

[Ashiruni]

So, for the record, I am a wee bit biased on this point, but there's a reason. The force is not an end-all, or be-all, or "haha, I killed you!" entity. It's powerful, it's got it's fun toys, but it's not perfect and requires *a lot* out of it's users to do *anything*. On that front, I support Sisk on both counts.

Also of note, in the instances described that Moira is discussing, all ships and parties were using transparisteel [link] a useful but decidedly weaker material than the glasteel [link] discussed. Additionally, the amount of force in question might be about 30 kiloneutons, but that force is distributed in two ways: first, energy transmissions are lost at a rate of (roughly) the square root of the initial number every ten meters due to a good half-dozen factors (everything from imperfect transmission mediums [which is present here] to expansion of the effect) when something doesn't expressly generate it's own energy or contain a physical means of conveying it such as a bullet or car. Secondly, that force would be distributed according to it's expansion. So, even if it was the power suggested of 30kn, by the time it reached sisk it would be approximately 1.897 neutons. The only exceptions to this noted in any star wars canon (legacy or otherwise, to the best of my knowledge) are done with a notable period of meditation (10 seconds plus), involves pushing a physical object that is exceedingly close to the user to help transmit that energy, or has such an absurd amount of power to begin with that the loss isn't worth mentioning (as demonstrated by Corran Horn and his grandfather in the book I, Jedi). Also notable, is the fact that even over these extensive distances, meditation, and or pushing an object, even yoda himself couldn't affect miniscule targets, and instead used his abilities over the whole of the person/object in question (if you don't think it's a difficult target to hit a visor at those ranges, think again. Have a friend hold a ruler up and take forty steps away from you and then realize the object you're trying to hit is smaller than that and is probably farther away. Expert marksmen will be able to hit it laterally with a decent weapon, but hitting the broadside is significantly more difficult. There's a reason soldiers are trained to aim for center mass, rather than trying to face-shot everybody.) You're trying to use a shotgun-type attack and hit, precisely, that target, and still have enough effective ability with a reflexive action to shatter steel at 40 or so meters. I think not. Were you in a full trance, spending ten or more seconds on it, had yoda-level mastery, and the shatterpoint force-power, I'd say sure thing, go for it, have fun. You have none of these things.

Finally, let's dissect your counter-point, shall we?

Also you're selectively ignoring stuff you wrote. Sisk also took the time to zoom in and identify Rook's weapon, then activating a target-locking ability your scope doesn't actually have for that grenade.

I'm assuming you're talking about blinking his eye twice. Yes. It's exactly that difficult. His HMD is controlled by combined eye movements and voice, so it takes between a quarter and half a second to zoom in and/or lock targets.

"and a newly designed HUD, linked to his rangefinder, capable of tracking up to 30 targets at once"

This is also located within Sisk's armor write-up.

Try .11 seconds. And if Sisk can identify the type of attack and react by shutting his audio filters off in that amount of time [...]

This point is entirely valid, though the result would still be the same with or without his turning off the audio pickups.

No. Nor have I specifically used Push 18 times, or Pull 18 times, or Lift 18 times. They all fall under TK, and combined, Rook's used TK powers that much at least. Plus after a certain point, most profiles of the same rank list Telekinesis as a whole. It doesn't mean Crush or similar are unknown, they're just included in that set.

True, people do tend to list the categories, rather than the specific powers, but if the power is not on your list, you still can't use it. This is the same for virtually all aspects of this site, and many others. If you can't be bothered to fill out the form completely and inclusively, you don't get to use what you don't actively have listed. Your argument is further marginalized as, in your own biography for Rook [link], you list blast, choke, and pyrokinesis, all of which are telekinetic powers, separately from your telekinetic mastery; additionally, barrier is disputably a use of telekinetics. Generally speaking, when dealing with this particular topic, telekinesis refers specifically to the applications of force push and force pull, rather than any of the numerous subset myriad of powers that are related to telekinesis and use similar principals. I would continue, but your entire argument of this topic, at this point, has more holes in it than a sieve, so I'm not going to spend more time on it.

Cockpits sure, your visor isn't going to be that thick however unless Sisk wants his helmet to be ludicrously front-heavy. And yes, brittle. Unless exceptionally thin, or made from rubber derivatives, clear mediums are brittle because of their molecular composition. BUT, this is Star Wars. So let's base it off SW tech. Grievous threw a blunt spear through a battleship's bridge window. It shattered. Now transparisteel is many times weaker than durasteel. So let's assume it was super thick to stand up to stresses in combat so it would have the relative strength of an acceptable thickness of durasteel. Now, let's imagine that glasteel is a natural improvement upon transparisteel. It's stronger, but would likely have similar properties.

BUT. Let's again look at your cockpit analogy. A cockpit would have to stand up to a laser cannon hit. It would have to be thick to do that, which would mean greater resistance to fracturing as well. But your visor is magnitudes weaker. It can only stand up to a couple pistol or rifle shots. So it's strength is no greater than bog-standard durasteel. And it not going to be as thick as the rest of your helmet, there has to be room for all those fancy displays and vision modes you have.

You're making quite the list of assumptions here. Namely that the strength of a material is directly proportional to it's thickness, regardless of size or shape, that the visor material would be less thick than the rest of the helmet, and that glasteel is significantly less durable than purported within the legacy canon. So, first and foremost, according to the wookiee article (which is linked above, but you may also find it here [link), is precisely the same strength as durasteel. For the sake of argument, let's assume that it is the same strength as modern-day hardened steel. The helmet thickness depicted in the movies for supercommando armor is roughly 1/2 cm, or about 5 millimeters. The amount of energy required to punch a hole similar to that which you've described into a half centimeter of steel is somewhere on the the order of 1200 newtons. It's hardly the most impressive requirement, but that's still on par with a fairly fast moving projectile. Once again, in melee ranges (less than 2 meters) you've likely got enough force for this kind of result, though it would be spread across significant portions of his person, not focused specifically on his visor. This is also star wars. Wherein they've had more than twenty thousand years after their achievement of faster than light travel (an achievement which is, at best, several hundred years away from our modern level of technology) to hone their material sciences, along with access to significantly more unique and interesting materials and substances than anything we have managed to discover. I'd bet money that durasteel is significantly stronger than modern-day steel, and would compare it more closely to composites (which is actually fairly well supported in the canon. It is made from a number of materials, after all, so it's definitely an alloy, which is a form of composite.), and composites are notably more durable than armor-grade hardened steels (which, technically, is an alloy of iron and carbon, but the point remains the same).

Additionally, using the same basic principal as that of a cockpit (which is fairly intrinsic in armor design) requires that you make your piece of glass slightly larger than needed, shave off a portion of the outer edge, and then adhere that to the outside of your metal to reduce the effectiveness of precisely the kind of attack you're making. It allows you to maintain a relatively high degree of protection, without sacrificing thickness. Even the thinner portions, where you've shaved it slightly, will fit into a groove in the steel especially designed for the purpose, and are therefore backed up by that steel to ensure solidarity and an equal degree of thickness.

Finally, just to rebut one of your more annoyingly foolish points, the HMD doesn't even need to be part of the glass in the first place. It's quite common for it to use a projection-system and a mostly-transparent coat of "paint". The light projects onto the paint, and you can then see it easily. Additionally, for less sophisticated systems, Optical Waveguides (typically rib types) are the leading market, which are exceedingly thin and would have effectively no impact on the structural performance, since they use the nature of the transparent surfaces themselves as the primary medium and projection surface. We're not talking Cathode Ray Tubes here, HMD's are developed far, far beyond that kind of primitive assumption.


- - - - - - - - - -


In summary, Silverphoenix, you had a single good point in your entire post. I suggest you do some research next time. By now, however, I'm more than a little certain this has been passed onto a moderator for an official ruling. I suppose we'll see that here shortly. Have fun :P

 

[BLADE]

So, for the record, I am a wee bit biased on this point, but there's a reason. The force is not an end-all, or be-all, or "haha, I killed you!" entity. It's powerful, it's got it's fun toys, but it's not perfect and requires *a lot* out of it's users to do *anything*. On that front, I support Sisk on both counts.

Not really. The Force is a massive advantage as we see in literally anything Star Wars. In terms of the semiotics and narrative of the story (forgetting tech) that's a consistent point stressed through every single source (canon or no.)

Also of note, in the instances described that Moira is discussing, all ships and parties were using transparisteel [link] a useful but decidedly weaker material than the glasteel [link] discussed. Additionally, the amount of force in question might be about 30 kiloneutons, but that force is distributed in two ways: first, energy transmissions are lost at a rate of (roughly) the square root of the initial number every ten meters due to a good half-dozen factors (everything from imperfect transmission mediums [which is present here] to expansion of the effect) when something doesn't expressly generate it's own energy or contain a physical means of conveying it such as a bullet or car.

Newtons.

And I pointed out that friction (in this case, the drag coefficient of a rough sphere over air medium) would be the main concern here, but at the distances and magnitudes (to say nothing of the competing sin angles), it's a fairly negligible concern. Furthermore, the Force and its attendant epiphenomena are described as contained media. You're also conflating (unnecessarily in this case, as we have the more elegant frictional solution) velocity with energy. Similar but different equations come into play here.

In any case, given the results we see in the canon of regular Force usage (hurling people, breaking cylinders of what is likely durasteel --Dooku vs Yoda in AOTC, for example), etc. Your later results (1 newton or so) are not particularly comformable with what the empirical results bear out.

It is, for example, possible that some non-nuclear or quantum effect is at play with force telekinesis. It could manifest at the area of effect with the Jedi/Sith/etc. as a conduit. The math is only a rough guide to give us analogies, and the analogy is quite simple: Force-based attacks can be rather beastly.

Secondly, that force would be distributed according to it's expansion. So, even if it was the power suggested of 30kn, by the time it reached sisk it would be approximately 1.897 neutons.

An unlikely notion given how we see telekinetic attacks work in the canon itself. A fortiori unlikely given that you haven't shown your mathematical process. Two newtons? We know how little force (no pun intended) we are mentioning here, do we not?

I would recheck your model friend, because the math in your case suggests what we already know to be impossible --that Force users have few viable telekinetic attacks at range.

The only exceptions to this noted in any star wars canon (legacy or otherwise, to the best of my knowledge) are done with
a notable period of meditation (10 seconds plus),

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ToztqqDcaY

^Satele Shan's kinetic attacks come considerably under that mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oGf-a1Dqlc

^Obi-Wan attacks General Grievous with a strong Force push in under two seconds

I could also link to TCW links, to the scene where both Yoda and Sidious hurl senate pods (which if we remember are considerably larger than cars, given how many people they hold, etc. Even Ahsoka Tano a (admittedly talented) padawan has some good showings here.

Have a friend hold a ruler up and take forty steps away from you and then realize the object you're trying to hit is smaller than that and is probably farther away. Expert marksmen will be able to hit it laterally with a decent weapon, but hitting the broadside is significantly more difficult. There's a reason soldiers are trained to aim for center mass, rather than trying to face-shot everybody.) You're trying to use a shotgun-type attack and hit, precisely, that target, and still have enough effective ability with a reflexive action to shatter steel at 40 or so meters. I think not. Were you in a full trance, spending ten or more seconds on it, had yoda-level mastery, and the shatterpoint force-power, I'd say sure thing, go for it, have fun. You have none of these things.

This is an excellent point. There are a few things to keep in mind. Force users have superhuman reflexes and the mental ability to use aforementioned reflexes. They often have the ability to not only deflect blaster bolts, but redirect them across dozens and sometimes hundreds of meters to hit other men-sized (or smaller) targets.

So while I would agree with you, in that it should be an easier thing for Sisk to try and dodge, I would say to let it RP out and see how it plays out. There are IMVHO good arguments on both sides of this particular issue.

Basically let the two gentlemen step back and talk it out like reasonable people before... trying to murder each other like reasonable people.

Anywho, it was interesting reading about these materials Ash. Thanks for the link to glassteel vs transparisteel (I wasn't even aware that was a thing, but I've never been a big EU guy.) I would suggest probably leaving this thread alone so we don't add to the backlog of admins/mods who will be swarming one imagines.

Best of luck to the admins reading this and to the parties involved!

 

[Sisk_Renelo]

Is anybody factoring in concentration here? Like would he be able to pull the concentration needed to hit a visor from 120+ feet after having 4 10mm plasma sheathed slugs hit his chest?

 

[BLADE]

Is anybody factoring in concentration here? Like would he be able to pull the concentration needed to hit a visor from 120+ feet after having 4 10mm plasma sheathed slugs hit his chest?

Wookiee adrenaline + Sith rage probably makes a highly powerful attack even more likely, IMHO. His aim would deteriorate, true, but honestly I think that given how much more powerful the attack would be, that it'd be a wash. Like I said though. Not an admin, nor presuming to weigh in on that, so we'll just have to wait to see what they say. No big deal either way, like I said. One way or another, someone is wounded and someone isn't or someone is wounded and someone has taken some armor damage or neither. Or both.

 

[Ashiruni]

Yup. You're right. I didn't bother hitting the spell checker and I forgot to fix that one >.<

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ToztqqDcaY

^Satele Shan's kinetic attacks come considerably under that mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oGf-a1Dqlc

^Obi-Wan attacks General Grievous with a strong Force push in under two seconds

I could also link to TCW links, to the scene where both Yoda and Sidious hurl senate pods (which if we remember are considerably larger than cars, given how many people they hold, etc. Even Ahsoka Tano a (admittedly talented) padawan has some good showings here.

You're misquoting me. The rest of the sentence provides all the clarification on the point necessary. For the sake of transparency, it states:

"The only exceptions to this noted in any star wars canon (legacy or otherwise, to the best of my knowledge) are done with a notable period of meditation (10 seconds plus), involves pushing a physical object that is exceedingly close to the user to help transmit that energy, or has such an absurd amount of power to begin with that the loss isn't worth mentioning (as demonstrated by Corran Horn and his grandfather in the book I, Jedi)."

The first video shows a combination of physical object and meditated assault. Your second video shows physical object. Anything else you'd like to show?

Also of note, my point is excellently reinforced here, as in both cases depicted the effect is distributed across the entire body of their opponent, not a specific point. Finally, in neither video, with the sole exception of the first during which Satele Shan has almost fifteen seconds to meditate while her opponent is launched in the air, do their attacks take place at a range even approaching forty meters. This includes every canon use of the force, with the possible exception of an ambiguously canon clone wars cartoon (the one modeled on the 1980's action cartoons), that I am aware of.


As for the rest, I had intended on leaving this thread alone, your comments just stuck in my craw. I'm an abject hater of folks that make the assumption that the force can do anything, to anyone, anywhere, without the time, concentration, and patience to see it through. As such, this will, most likely, be my final post here.

 

[Clayton]

Is anybody factoring in concentration here? Like would he be able to pull the concentration needed to hit a visor from 120+ feet after having 4 10mm plasma sheathed slugs hit his chest?

Rook's been using Telepathy to communicate with people for over 10 years, factoring in the timeskip. It's something that requires a fair amount of concentration, especially when talking to multiple people. So I'd say that isn't an issue.

And guys, please, stop measuring your mathematica dicks. You've all made your points, it would be more beneficial for Sisk and I to talk now instead of people dogpiling on each other.

 

[GABA]

I don't see anything wrong with the Force barrier from an experienced Wookieee Sith Master. I also haven't seen anything that would indicate that the glasteel was shatterproof. Just saying.

 

[The Kyzer]

I don't see anything wrong with the Force barrier from an experienced Wookieee Sith Master. I also haven't seen anything that would indicate that the glasteel was shatterproof. Just saying.

You just jelly cuz you ain't get to fight his Wookieeee

 

[Silverface]

Glasteel would be a pretty shit material if it was as 'strong as durasteel' but shattered in the face of any level of force.


Anyway, Silverpheonix suggested a compromise and that should be the course of action he and Sisk should take. Everything else is just after the fact.

 

[Clayton]

Glasteel would be a pretty shit material if it was as 'strong as durasteel' but shattered in the face of any level of force.


Anyway, Silverpheonix suggested a compromise and that should be the course of action he and Sisk should take. Everything else is just after the fact.

I figured it would take the same effort to deform as durasteel, but as it appears to be a natural development from transparisteel, instead of buckling it cracks and shatters.

But anyway, Sisk PMed me so we're working on something.

 

[Clayton]

And we're back! Through the power of actually talking to each other, Sisk and I have come to a compromise! I have edited my post in the thread. We now continue with your regularly scheduled tomfoolery.

 

[Sisk_Renelo]

And posted.

 

[Clayton]

I uh, posted as well after noticing the smart-fuze is only in the HE grenades.

 

[The Kyzer]

I uh, posted as well after noticing the smart-fuze is only in the HE grenades.

 

[Clayton]

If there's any controversy over the grenade, well:

a) At no point did Sisk say these were grenades he had specially modded. So there's no indication he's using anything other than the standard grenades for the gun and made a mistake.
b) I asked Sisk how far he had shot it until it hit the ground. He said 20 feet, which is 6 meters, well within the 10-meter range.
c) A grenade going off when you didn't expect it is extremely distracting, even if it's a non-lethal one. Combine that with the visor cracking within a second or two of that and I'd be really surprised if that didn't interrupt anything he had planned on doing.
d)

The scope can set the fuze on 'smart' HE rounds for the grenade launcher.

e) I'm under no obligation to OOCly point out a mistake an opponent made

 

[Mistress]

I can't write another post until TAC responds.