Man of Steel

[Kaeb]

They're not unstoppable to each other. That's my point. They're on an even playing field.

Could Zod kill Superman in a fight and vice versa?

Also, Zod:

 

[Kiro]

The Man in Steel vs the Man of Steel.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Could Zod kill Superman in a fight and vice versa?

I'm pretty sure, otherwise Zod would never be a threat to Superman. He could be a threat to the world, but never to the main character -- so his appearances in Superman II, Smallville, and Man of Steel would become decidedly less interesting. Supervillains work when they're a threat to the world and to the hero.

My understanding is that anyone with power like that can kill Superman. Doomsday is just the only one who did.

Also, Zod:

I'll wait to pass judgment on the CGI armor, which is interesting but needs to be seen on the screen I think. As for the portrayal, if anyone can top Terrance Stamp then it's Michael Shannon. He's a fantastic actor. His character in Boardwalk Empire creeps the shit out of me.

 

[Kaeb]

My point is basically, is he Bane or Ra's al Ghul?

Ra's al Ghul could probably have fought for hours on that train if it was a circular rail, whereas Bane would beat Batman to death, which is he?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

My point is basically, is he Bane or Ra's al Ghul?

Ra's al Ghul could probably have fought for hours on that train if it was a circular rail, whereas Bane would beat Batman to death, which is he?

Probably a mixture of both.

 

[Kaeb]

Probably a mixture of both.

Then there's a risk of lacking tension, especially if the fight scenes are all CG.

 

[Kiro]

Well, Zod was a military man back on Krypton. So for a Kryptonian, he would likely be a prime specimen when it comes to physique and fitness. Now that he's on Earth, he's also suddenly got superpowers to top it off.

Clark Kent is a farm boy, whom then went on to become a journalist, that happens to be a superpowered alien living on Earth.

So, if superpowers are thrown out the window, then logic would dictate Zod' wipe the floor with Clark. At least in my insane head.

 

[Kaeb]

We've seen shots in the trailer of Superman being thrown into a massive reinforced bank vault, and then slipping off of it like he collapsed onto a bean bag and then he flys right out of the room. Which is totally normal, it's Superman, that shit happens all the time. But if at no point in the film Superman is given a recognizable weakness beyond 'the villain can punch him slightly harder than he can punch him', it's a genuine problem.

I'm not even optimistic anymore, I'm just cautious when it comes to this film.

 

[Demiurge]

The reason Superman is different has nothing to do with vulnerabilities or Kryptonite, it's a genetic notability, and just unique, not necessarily advantageous.

"People were bred to be warriors or scientists or what-have-you, and there's a whole element in the movie about nature versus nurture," Goyer says. EW adds, "Kal-El is unique because he's a natural conception, free from genetic manipulation to choose his own course in life - which also makes his existence highly illegal."

1

This is most likely taken from John Bryne's run with Superman, given the inclusion of Krypton's indulgence of genetic manipulation, and makes sense given Krypton's current state of civil war. Personally, I like this spin; if anything, Superman could potentially very well be seen as an anomaly or lesser-than-equal by the "genetically superior" Kryptonians like Dru-Zod or Faora. This might also imply that Zod may be more powerful than Superman.

 

[Kaeb]

The reason Superman is different has nothing to do with vulnerabilities or Kryptonite, it's a genetic notability, and just unique, not necessarily advantageous.

1

This is most likely taken from John Bryne's run with Superman, given the inclusion of Krypton's indulgence of genetic manipulation, and makes sense given Krypton's current state of civil war. Personally, I like this spin; if anything, Superman could potentially very well be seen as an anomaly or lesser-than-equal by the "genetically superior" Kryptonians like Dru-Zod or Faora. This might also imply that Zod may be more powerful than Superman.

I wasn't so much ragging on Superman's uniqueness, as I was talking more broadly about how they might tackle the character's physical weaknesses in the film without Kryptonite given his godlike powers. Especially trying to relate it to mainstream audiences.

 

[BLADE]

I'll be the first to say that I think Snyder's a hack and that the Nolan approach dilutes the source material by grounding and adapting into nothingness.

With that being said, kryptonite is an ad hoc weakness of Superman's that makes no sense physically (the guy moves faster than the speed of light, which means he should be able to dodge kryptonite radiation.) If it's some sort of psychological thing that would make sense, but that's neither here nor there. Kryptonite, is, as I noted, basically an ad hoc solution of how to make Superman vulnerable. It doesn't need to be an element in the story because so long as the story is well-plotted, we will buy whatever weakness the film comes up with for Superman. For example, in the DCAU, he was weakened by red sun radiation, which simply doesn't power him in the comics --but does not depower him. In some iterations, he can have solar energy drained from him. And so forth. Even with Luthor as a (likely) future enemy if things go well, kryptonite isn't a necessary element.

As for how to deal with the Zod problem.

Superman is stronger. Considerably stronger. It makes sense as he's been soaking solar radiation which is slowly and permanently changing his molecular structure (the longer Superman stays around a sun, the more his powers permanently increase.) However, Zod is emotionally manipulative, has claims on Clark's Kryptonian heritage, threatens civilians and makes clear to Clark that the only way he'll be able to beat him is by killing him.

It's borrowing off of TDK and any number of pulp heroics, but it gives us stakes and allows us to see how Superman (a being with ideally both an All-American and an alien perspective) can deal with that sort of moral quandary.

At least that's how I'd write it. Physical threats to Superman IMHO are pretty much galactic despots and magical god-type things.

 

[Demiurge]

I wasn't so much ragging on Superman's uniqueness, as I was talking more broadly about how they might tackle the character's physical weaknesses in the film without Kryptonite given his godlike powers. Especially trying to relate it to mainstream audiences.

It's not like it was needed for Thor or Hulk, especially in the Avengers film. Just make a threat that equals or surpasses their abilities, and the playing field is at least evened. There's, I believe, at least four antagonist Kryptonians in Man of Steel, and all are just as strong as Superman with military training and possibly stronger due to genetic engineering.

Kryptonite is more of a needed element when the antagonist is seeking to outmaneuver Superman (ie, Lex Luthor, Brainiac in some cases) or overcome him (Metallo), not for antagonists that can defeat him by overpowering him (Doomsday, Mongul, Darkseid, Zod, Lobo, etc.)

Besides, it'd be difficult - and more importantly, unnecessary - to include Kryptonite when the antagonists are universally Kryptonians. It's not impossible and could probably be done well if properly conceived, but it's about time the general audiences were brought out of woeful ignorance that you need Kryptonite to defeat Superman. That's a horribly outdated misconception, and is part of the reason people think he's impossible to relate to.

 

[Kaeb]

It's not like it was needed for Thor or Hulk, especially in the Avengers film. Just make a threat that equals or surpasses their abilities, and the playing field is at least evened. There's, I believe, at least four antagonist Kryptonians in Man of Steel, and all are just as strong as Superman with military training and possibly stronger due to genetic engineering.

Kryptonite is more of a needed element when the antagonist is seeking to outmaneuver Superman (ie, Lex Luthor, Brainiac in some cases) or overcome him (Metallo), not for antagonists that can defeat him by overpowering him (Doomsday, Mongul, Darkseid, Zod, Lobo, etc.)

Besides, it'd be difficult - and more importantly, unnecessary - to include Kryptonite when the antagonists are universally Kryptonians. It's not impossible and could probably be done well if properly conceived, but it's about time the general audiences were brought out of woeful ignorance that you need Kryptonite to defeat Superman. That's a horribly outdated misconception, and is part of the reason people think he's impossible to relate to.

Everything you've just stated is essentially my point, I was attempting to play Devil's Advocate for the mainstream audiences to gauge whether or not these types of scenarios have been executed well within the realm of the comics, of which my own knowledge is limited as well. It worked within the context of Thor's universe because he was fighting giant ****ing Frost Giants until he's de-powered for half the movie, until finally he needs four allies just to best one weapon sent from where he comes from. In The Avengers, it's an entire army and the rest essentially explains itself.

If they make the Kryptonians a convincing enough threat without it seeming hammy/campy and ridiculous, I can see it working, but only if they do it right.

 

[Kiro]

It's not impossible and could probably be done well if properly conceived, but it's about time the general audiences were brought out of woeful ignorance that you need Kryptonite to defeat Superman. That's a horribly outdated misconception, and is part of the reason people think he's impossible to relate to.

Yeah, this was why I was very anti-Supes for quite a while. It seemed really lame that there's this super-powered alien that flies around with godlike strenghts, all kinds of visions, can move faster than thought, etc., and the only way to defeat him was a green glowing rock from a planet that exploded some 30 odd years ago, across the galaxy. The odds of a single piece of kryptonite shard reaching Earth and staying in crystal shape is quite literally astronomic.

 

[Demiurge]

Everything you've just stated is essentially my point, I was attempting to play Devil's Advocate for the mainstream audiences to gauge whether or not these types of scenarios have been executed well within the realm of the comics, of which my own knowledge is limited as well. It worked within the context of Thor's universe because he was fighting giant ****ing Frost Giants until he's de-powered for half the movie, until finally he needs four allies just to best one weapon sent from where he comes from. In The Avengers, it's an entire army and the rest essentially explains itself.

If they make the Kryptonians a convincing enough threat without it seeming hammy/campy and ridiculous, I can see it working, but only if they do it right.

I get where you're coming from.

Side note, this also gives a lot of new meaning into the quote from the older Jor-El themed MoS trailer, where he says

"What if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society had intended? What if a child aspired to something greater?"

Sounds like Jor-El character on his own held the belief to be something more than what he is, and that philosophy guided his decision to keep Kal-El from being confined to Kryptonian genetic philosophy, where your destiny is per-determined even before conception.

In fact, given that there is a notable fight scene between Jor-El and Zod, perhaps Jor-El was not even meant to be a scientist per his own genetic engineering, but a soldier like Zod.

 

[Blaxican]

Looking at the trailers for this, am I the only one who thinks that the film looks... distinctly... unfun?

I mean, there's introspective, there's intellectual, but this movie just looks downright depressing. The heavily-laden Jesus allegories and choir music added at least a bit of a comedic undertone, but all in all, everytime I see the trailers I feel like it's going to be one of those movies that's just going to be one "gritty" setpiece after another.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

I am pretty okay with the movie so far. I really have no expectations as of now. Aside from not caring for the suit, I am going to go into it with little bias.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

[video=youtube;d6g2ZSuWyM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6g2ZSuWyM4[/video]

Given what Xeno said about the genetic engineering on Krypton, and how Kal-El wasn't genetically modified in any way, I wonder if Zod considers him a fugitive? That would explain why Superman is arrested on Earth. Zod just wants Superman, not Earth -- but he's willing to destroy Earth to get him.

That also ties into what Michael Shannon has said about Zod. He described Zod as someone you'll be able to understand, because he's a soldier intent on carrying out his mission. His mission, it seems, is to capture the fugitive Kal-El.

 

[Kaeb]

I'm sure there are all sorts of viral goodies hidden inside of that trailer as well, it certainly looks like the type.

I have much the same thoughts as Blaxican, I garnered pretty much zero excitement/fun from the trailers so far. No set pieces that peaked my interest, no story elements that got me invested, no visuals that widened my eyes. It just looks...bland right now.

 

[Shiuzu]

I'm excited for this movie, I love Superman, and I really hope this will be a great movie, the last movie...the last two...Superman I and II were pretty awesome, also if you ever have the chance watch the Donner cut.

I know most of you have doubts about this movie, or aren't really interested, but I've been excited for this since the first theatrical trailer (lame music and out of character Jonathan Kent aside).

That being said I feel like if this is a smash hit Snyder and Nolan will be doing a lot more DC movies...so it's very much a split decision on what I want to happen.